What happens to Lampard...

[coollino]

It's bewildering how some people just say that no other manager could do better than lampard. I mean for a start a more Conservative manager wouldn't have Kenny in the centre of the pitch at 2-2 taking shots from 30 yards. He would be rigidly stuck to his position trying to maintain evertons 4 point gap from the drop. And because of that we leave big gaps open and see our lead adjusted to 1 point.

I mean there's a start.....

Frank is Tory enough thanks

 

[gazzaa2]

It's bewildering how some people just say that no other manager could do better than lampard. I mean for a start a more Conservative manager wouldn't have Kenny in the centre of the pitch at 2-2 taking shots from 30 yards. He would be rigidly stuck to his position trying to maintain evertons 4 point gap from the drop. And because of that we leave big gaps open and see our lead adjusted to 1 point.

I mean there's a start.....

Tactically things seem very chaotic under Lampard which can bring a feast or famine result. When it worked we hammered Leeds and Brentford and ultimately beat Newcastle in a mad second half. Then at Palace it worked for 30 mins and then we fell apart. Spurs destroyed us. It allowed us to create a lot the other night but left us ultimately too open at the back in a game we couldn't afford to lose.

Basically it's working at Goodison but not away from home. A few home wins will keep us up.

 

[Gordon Lee's Cushion]

Whatever the outcome tomorrow afternoon I expect opinions to have shifted on him. Win and a lot of the opposition will go quiet, lose and maybe those that are pro now will realise we need a change. I haven‘t included draw as he doesn’t do draws.

I’ll sleep a little more soundly if we win, I am sure frank will.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Nope. If you go back through my posts, I said that Lampard has made mistakes. For example, for the life of me I cannot fathom why he keeps playing Coleman and Kenny and never gave Patterson a spin. That is not a free pass.

I also laid out the reasons that Benitez has destroyed this side, leaving a damn near impossible job. I certainly didn't expect a huge amount from anyone coming in, unless they had time to get in the players they needed. Thanks to the board, he didn't.

When we appointed Benitez I said to everyone that we would finish about 14th-15th and go down the year after. When I saw what he did to our squad and the kind of player he was after, I went on record to all my mates and colleagues as saying that we would just stay up this year and go down next year - and that was including out okay start. When he punted Dinge and brought in an inexperienced player to replace him, who may turn out to be good, but at the moment is no better than N'Kounkou, I knew we were done.

If we were to stay up this season, it was always going to be because there were three teams worse than us, not because of anything we particularly did. Nothing has changed my opinion there.

If you asked me in January if I thought Lampard could keep us up, I would have answered that it was a huge ask - as I would have done for anyone. If you'd have asked me if I thought he could do a decent rebuild of this squad, then I would have answered probably. My opinion on that has not changed.

You want Allardyce as a sure thing for next year too. But this is a man who lashed money at Tosun and Walcott and freely admitted that he was trying to sign Phil Jones, Jack Wilshire et al. for us in the Summer if he was staying.

Then on the other hand you want Fonseca - who may turn out to be a great manager, but whose style would take months to put in place and could not be played by our current useless ratbags, so would not be able to keep us up now. So why not give Lampard a chance?

I don't personally think anyone could have inherited this squad, in the state they were, picked up further key injuries and suspensions to key players, endure the series of dodgy decisions at the hands of VAR and the PL we've been subject to and done much better. It would be nominal.

Klopp, Guardiola etc. I'm sure would not get a tune out of this lot quickly enough and even a defensive-minded manager would not be able to get this defence, low on confidence and without Mina to start defending properly, whilst also doing enough going forwards to win some matches - because Benitez sold all our creativity.

We chose Lampard, rightly or wrongly. In my opinion, there should have been more managers in that conversation than there were. But hey, that's our utterly inept board. Lampard was appointed knowing he was inexperienced but with one eye on the future. So we give him a chance to do that. There are now no decent alternatives with 9 games left.

If he can keep us up, he'll have damn well earned a crack at next year, which seems to be a large part of what he was appointed for. And if he doesn't, we'll, there's nothing that the club could do now that would change that outcome and the board need to take responsibility for all the decisions that have brought us to this point.

Fair points mate and I do agree with some of what you say. I had total faith in Lampard and didn't think we could go down this season based on those Brentford and Leeds performances but since then, his handling of the players in public (whether he is right in what he says about them is irrelevant to the fact bashings should be done in private) and his defensive issues which he had at Chelsea who will have better defenders than we'll ever hope to sign I worry that he has fundamental flaws to his management. He may be nice fella and tries to play easy on the eye stuff but so did Martinez ultimately.

A win tomorrow is massive but I feel that Burnley result was his 2-5 Watford game in the eyes of some fans including myself - If you cant win a game dont lose it in our current position which is done by tactical decisions / substitutions which never came and haven't done in a lot of his games.

 

[Ufotone]

No more sackings please!

Frank must get better results, we all know that.

Does anybody think we would get a new manager bounce with our current squad?

There are no miracle worker managers about to save us

Hopefully we can just survive, then rebuild over time.

Confidence and results will follow

Amen

 

[BlueToff]

Do you think he ok'd it or he was just told that Alli was being signed and that was that?

I go off what has been accurately reported mate, which was it was said in that final interview that we can do deals for VdB and Alli. Lampard signed off on both of them. Clearly wanted them but it's not like he asked for Dele, he was just the option.

The club should have had a CB and a DM lined up but didn't, because they're thick. And, to be ultra-critical, Lampard should have said he didn't want both Dele and VdB, but instead wanted one and a CB etc

 

[BlueToff]

@Billy Dean meant 'reliably reported'

 

[BlueToff]

These things cut both ways, though.

If you were a Burnley fan, you'd be looking at it as having gifted Everton two goals with the penalties.

I mean, the first one, if an Everton player did that, I'd be accusing him of match-fixing.

I agree, but that's fine margins football too. You can swing it that we drew the fouls, which we did - Mykolenko's turn was neat and Gordon was positive with his run.

Also, Everton created some good chances and failed to take them. Burnley created four decent chances, and scored three goals, with the other one being Cornet's shot at Pickford. And I'm going off xG here too, btw, not just calling them good chances or bad chances based on what I thought.

Whereas Godfrey for their winner is under no pressure at all and before that, Kenny has no reason to shoot from 30 yards out does he?

It's like tennis. Unforced errors and all that.

I'll be kind and say that Taylor did pretty well to nip around Kenny in the lead up to their second goal but a defender with any composure or quality knows not to dive in there.

 

[overkill]

We shifted high wages last summer and will do again, maybe not all of them,We will sell players on high wages and have 4 out of contract ,maybe some will be loaned and we pay some of the wages? Take Mina in 120k with a year left. I’d imagine Everton would let him go for free if they have to, just to shift his wages

Also like I said we’re under the threshold. And I know the championship rules are tighter, but they won’t come into the play as soon as we go down, surely they give you a season or two to get your house in order.

Worst case scenario we raise 120mil from sales and drop the wage bill by 30/40mil. If we have to go with the players we have. Plus under 23’s and a few loans and frees, so be it.

Hope your right and it's enough.

Actaully I just hope we don't go down

 

[BlueToff]

The problem is bad defenders make more mistakes in set ups like Lampards. Look at our defence under Martinez there was a howler nearly every game.

If we go down with Frankel I dont think he'll bring us back up which is the worry.

Hang on. When Benitez was in charge and playing a set up that is nothing like Lampard's, you were saying it was all on the players?

Make your mind up pal.

I think Lampard has got plenty wrong but a set up has nothing to do with Ben Godfrey completely failing to make a clearance that someone playing blindfolded could make.

 

[vintage-toffees]

Blame benitez and moshiri for appointment

 

[Cork Evertonian]

If we lose to United then Lampard will have only won two out of ten league games. Two wins and eight defeats in the league will be Lampards record.

I say we would then need to get rid of him. Sure it will make us look like a joke, but so what we've been a joke for pretty much the entire Moshiri era.

We need a manager who has experience of fighting relegation battles, and a manager who in the worst case scenario has promotions on his cv.

It's better to do something, than to do nothing in my opinion. We may as well throw the dice one final time, and hope it comes up trumps.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Hang on. When Benitez was in charge and playing a set up that is nothing like Lampard's, you were saying it was all on the players?

Make your mind up pal.

I think Lampard has got plenty wrong but a set up has nothing to do with Ben Godfrey completely failing to make a clearance that someone playing blindfolded could make.

The difference was Benitez has never been renowned for having a leaky defence - if anything he's been renowned for playing dour defensive football.

Lampard on the other hand was criticised at Chelsea over his teams defending and had similiar issues at Derby.

Some managers are like that (Martinez, Silva, Biesla) but fans need to be honest in the acceptance of that and not expect him to suddenly make us solid after signing 1-2 of his own defenders when they'll not be better than what he had at Chelsea.

 

[Carlito]

I agree, but that's fine margins football too. You can swing it that we drew the fouls, which we did - Mykolenko's turn was neat and Gordon was positive with his run.

Also, Everton created some good chances and failed to take them. Burnley created four decent chances, and scored three goals, with the other one being Cornet's shot at Pickford. And I'm going off xG here too, btw, not just calling them good chances or bad chances based on what I thought.

Whereas Godfrey for their winner is under no pressure at all and before that, Kenny has no reason to shoot from 30 yards out does he?

It's like tennis. Unforced errors and all that.

I'll be kind and say that Taylor did pretty well to nip around Kenny in the lead up to their second goal but a defender with any composure or quality knows not to dive in there.

Mykolenko did well, yeah. I was blown away by how bad the defending was for the first, though.

Unfortunately, the recruitment has been so poor that we're having to pick match-losers every week.

The one positive was how atrocious Burnley looked.

 

[Brennan]

Whether you want him gone or not (I don’t) it’s far too late to be getting in a defensive manager, for a few reasons.

1) This team has no accomplished backs to the wall defenders.

2) We are too close to the drop, we need wins and not just draws

3) Our attacking players are not clinical enough to play on the counter and guarantee we’ll nick a goal no get those wins

Sometimes in life you just have to accept the lot you’ve been given and hope for the best. This is one of those times. I’d say the odds of changing manager now has an extremely high chance of failing miserably.