We have to get back to a four man defence

[BirkenheadBlue]

I’m usually not a huge fan of 3 at the back, but we looked really solid with it yesterday, barring one moment of madness from a midfielder.

Bizarre thread to post, this. Unsurprisingly.

 

[Buckers]

The more I watch us the more I have to concede that Iwobi in a 10 role could be the way to go. Gueye and Onana behind him.

4 man defence, Patterson, Tarks, Keane and Myko. Keane will be fine with Gueye buzzing around in front of him. It’s either Keane or Holgate now unless the plan is to shoe horn Coady into that role? Never heard of a CB that can’t play in a 4 before???

Up top it’s Gordon + anyones guess. Gray and McNeill looked off the pace yesterday. Getting a new striker would at least mean we only had one wide position to worry about.

 

[Eggs]

It was a clear pen. And it exposed the confusion of defenders not knowing who they should be picking up in those situations.

…not sure it exposes the confusion of defenders but it certainly highlights their failings, whether it be back four or back 3. Holgate, for example, often finds himself the wrong side of the ball and out of the game regardless of system.

I’m not a fan of 3 at the back because whenever we play it, it invariably ends up as a back 5. I don’t get hung up on systems but whatever you play you need players to fit it. Lampard has set his stall out & I was actually quite content with us looking solid yesterday, but even taking away the lack of a potent striker, both WBs were too safe and offered little in the top third.

 

[degsy]

This present system of three is not us and it's not that effective, as seldom do we have five at the back when we have to transition when the ball is with the opposition. It's alien to us and it's showing. We're playing it because of personnel, not because it's a tactical strength. Lampard is frustrated we dont have the people here to go with 4 at the back and 3 in midfield and said so recently.

We conceded yesterday because the players we have just cant work the system and we end up with non-defenders bundling over the opposition to hand pens and victories to them.

Find a system to best suit what you have - not shoehorn players in to what you think it should be.

How hard is that?

You got to ac-cent-tchu-ate the positive
E-lim-i-nate the negative
Latch on to the a-firmative
Don't mess with Mr. In-between…especially if he gives away a daft Penno

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The system worked yesterday and will be even more solid with Onana and Gana patrolling the middle. For a team with little attacking threat I expect a lot of 1-0 wins this season.

 

[hktoffee]

This present system of three is not us and it's not that effective, as seldom do we have five at the back when we have to transition when the ball is with the opposition. It's alien to us and it's showing. We're playing it because of personnel, not because it's a tactical strength. Lampard is frustrated we dont have the people here to go with 4 at the back and 3 in midfield and said so recently.

We conceded yesterday because the players we have just cant work the system and we end up with non-defenders bundling over the opposition to hand pens and victories to them.

I disagree. I think we are more solid defensively with 3 CB at the back in particular Tarkowski is the leader that we need. If Coady comes in we are fine with 3 CB.

Midfield is no longer a problem as Doucouré and Iwobi were fine yesterday and with Onana and Gana coming in we are loaded in CM.

The problem is the ability to create and score goals which means we must add more forwards and strikers ideally two more signings. One striker who can hold on the ball and score plus the other being a wide forward who can assist and score goals.

The current options are limited:

McNeil - New signing. Give him benefit of doubt.
DCL - Hardly played last season and now is quite injury-prone.
Gordon - Still developing. I don’t think he should be a starter at this point as he simply does not provide enough assists and goals. 3 of the 4 goals he scored last season were deflections.
Gray - His goals disappeared since last November. His bad decision making is on par with Gordon. He is pacy that’s about it.
Townsend - Should only be a squad player and will leave on free next summer anyway.
Iwobi - The number of his goals and assists are low but he redeems himself with his energy and workrate.
Dele - 7 games and we have to pay £10m, what should we do next?
Rondon - Umm…

 

[Martin Alvito]

In the limit, I agree with you in the sense that I think any club needs the ability to play more than one system to compete for the title. Jorginho and Kante are a rare lightning-in-a-bottle CM pairing that is nearly impossible to replicate, and even with them Chelsea probably leaks some points by not being able to attack weaknesses against lesser resistance.

Outpacing everyone else over 38 matches is not in the frame right now. Chelsea is clearly good enough to lift the European Cup playing five at the back, because they recently did it. Ditto for qualifying for the CL. For our present goals, the problem is not the formation.

It's deploying sub-standard players. Our biggest problem areas are striker and central midfield. The obvious remedy (besides sign solutions, which we are doing within the limits of the finances) is to use our relative strengths out wide to attack, and be strong in the middle of the park defensively to deny goals. It may not be who we want to be or what we want to see on the pitch, but being a Prem club is also part of our identity. It is unwise at best to risk that trying to play a free-flowing style of attack through the middle of the park that we don't have the players for.

 

[Street end man]

…not sure it exposes the confusion of defenders but it certainly highlights their failings, whether it be back four or back 3. Holgate, for example, often finds himself the wrong side of the ball and out of the game regardless of system.

I’m not a fan of 3 at the back because whenever we play it, it invariably ends up as a back 5. I don’t get hung up on systems but whatever you play you need players to fit it. Lampard has set his stall out & I was actually quite content with us looking solid yesterday, but even taking away the lack of a potent striker, both WBs were too safe and offered little in the top third.

Agree with most of that as usual, however to be fair our wing backs did as much as they could yesterday and I thought they were fine for the most part.
They were up against their opposite numbers who are no mugs but more importantly our lads options are so limited when there is simply no target man/men to aim for when they are in the advanced position, so invariably the move breaks down without a cross, it must be so demoralising.

I thought Lampards set up was great yesterday with the hand he had, Chelsea could not break us down in open play.

It's not the tactics any more that baffle me, it's the thought of paying wages to the likes of Gomes,Davies and a few others to have them hanging around Finch farm whilst no part of the future plan, yet we have strikers out on loan whilst we start the season toothless.

Now that is manic.

 

[MrGrumpy]

This present system of three is not us and it's not that effective, as seldom do we have five at the back when we have to transition when the ball is with the opposition. It's alien to us and it's showing. We're playing it because of personnel, not because it's a tactical strength. Lampard is frustrated we dont have the people here to go with 4 at the back and 3 in midfield and said so recently.

We conceded yesterday because the players we have just cant work the system and we end up with non-defenders bundling over the opposition to hand pens and victories to them.

Dont think we got much choice now

 

[aazak]

Going to be 3/5 at the back under Lampard 95% of the time. I can even see Seamus coming back as a centre back in a 3.

 

[brigadier]

Possibly the best back 5 performance I've seen from Everton and we still get beat, it's not for us.

 

[Neiler]

Think its less about the formation at the back and more about how we defend as a team, myself @bluestevon were guessing during the off season that instead of relying completely on formation or set positions, we would be pressing - i think that was the case yesterday, i thought we pressed really well and it really suited us. The wing backs grew into the game hugely especially in the second half and i thought we scared Chelsea. Lets be honest despite not having a cutting edge, we in phases were getting the better of Chelsea to the point, that they were fearful, they were lying down on the ground, taking 3 mins over throws, making 50 subs every two mins, trying to break momentum.

If we can sort out our cutting edge im very encouraged on how we set up.

Shout out for Iwobi, he must be the best in the world at loosing the ball and then winning it back himself - dont think ive ever seen anything quite like it.

 

[Neiler]

The system worked yesterday and will be even more solid with Onana and Gana patrolling the middle. For a team with little attacking threat I expect a lot of 1-0 wins this season.

Bar the brain fart a chara, i thought Doucoure was excellent yesterday, im not sure how its going to look creatively, but Onana, Gana and Doucoure in the center is going to be very hard to break down.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Possibly the best back 5 performance I've seen from Everton and we still get beat, it's not for us.

I reckon having no actual forward with the ability to stop the ball coming right back at us was a bigger hindrance. One of the few times a game may well have really suited Rondon (No, I can't believe I'm saying it either!).

The back 3/5 allowed Mykolenko & Patterson to take up good positions with Iwobi especially picking them out well at times with the option to swiftly move the ball. With two mobile and defensively adequate midfielders either side of a deep Iwobi there is scope for playing two proper forwards or at least one and a deper link-up player with that 3/5 at the back.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It’s not so much the formation it’s the attacking patters for me. There were multiple moments in that game that a cross could have been thrown in if DCL was available. Instead though the players checked back and worked the ball across.

We need to decide if we want to play this formation on the counter like Spurs do, or by possessing the ball like Chelsea do.

Matching up to Chelsea though like we did yesterday is still a massive move away from last season when at times we could barely put a pass together. I know we won last season but you play that game 10 times and we lose a lot of them. You play yesterday’s game 10 times and we don’t lose many in my opinion. It was a far higher standard of football in everything except the final third. Even then though Gordon could have nodded in that cross and Dele should have scored, even Doucoure had a free shot in the box.