“The only thing worse than a battle lost is a battle won.” Still, considering the circumstances, we’ve got to support Ukraine.
Current Affairs Ukraine
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
1570. Ivan the Terrible terminates autonomy of Veliky Novgorod. Women and children were massacred, churches burnt and looted. About 20 thousand people died, numerous were deported. Following famine did the rest.
1708. Peter I the Great destroys Kozak Hetmanate, a self-governing political and military entity between Poland and Russia, a predecessor of an independent Ukraine. It capitol, Batouryn was burnt and all inhabitants including women and children, executed.
1794. Russian army conquers Warsaw, a last act of Poland's partitions. Inhabitants of Praga, the eastern Warsaw suburb, including women and children are massacred; up to 20 thousand dies. Suvorov, Russian commander-in-chief is promoted to field marshal by Catherine the Great.
1863-1864. Repressions after January Rising on the territories of the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Governor General of Vilna, M. Muravyov nicknamed 'hangman' bans Latin alphabet, executes publicly combatants and deports 9.000 of them to Siberia, imposes enormous contributions. Muravyov was a true forerunner of what is labelled 'denazification" by Putin today, and which is, in fact a brutal and forcible russification. It was him who rooted out Catholicism in Belarus and turned it into a Russian-speaking country. He was widely cheered in Russia as a hero
1917-1920 Red Terror on the Polish and Ukrainian territories during Bolshevik Revolution, Polish-Bolshevik War and Ukrainian-Bolshevik War. For 3 years looting, rapin.g and killing raged between Vistula and Dnieper; prisoners of war were routinely killed by the Red Army. Particularly infamous was the Cavalry Army of Semyon Budyonny. Atrocities committed by Konarmiya were documented by Isaac Babel in his famous short stories collection, published in the 1920s in Soviet Union. Authorities regarded brutality towards 'counterrevolution' as plausible
1932-1933. Holodomor. Terror Famine, purposely induced by Stalin on the territory of Ukraine resulted in at least 2,5 Mio deaths according to lowest estimates and up to 10 Mio according to the highest. Though directed against landowners, it affected mostly ethnic Ukrainians.
1939-1941. Soviet occupation of eastern Poland. Approx. 800.000 were deported to barrens in the North and East, many of them died. 7.000 were executed, 110.000 imprisoned, 150.000 forced to join Red Army. Same policy was pursued by the USSR in the annexed Baltic countries
1941. Red Army forced to retreat by advancing Wehrmacht; NKVD however still had time to execute (mostly political) prisoners in the cities of Soviet-occupied Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian territories. At least 10.000 were hastily shot.
1943. Discovery of mass graves in Katyń, at that time occupied by the Germans. At least 21.768 Polish citizens, mostly officers and policemen were shot by NKVD in 1940. Nazi propaganda exploits the massacre but Stalin coldly denies everything and accuses Germany of the killings. Thing is Germans wasn't ther at the time
b’stards……
It was not until 1990 that M. Gorbachev officially acknowledged Soviet responsibility for the mass murder and made documents accessible. Yeltsin even said "sorry". Russia never explained however, what happened to approx. 100.000 Polish officers which remained missing since 1939.
1945-1947. In all countries 'liberated' by USRR, Soviet&local security forces hunted down all who might oppose the communist rule. In Poland only, 6.000 were executed after mock trials and some 100.000 repressed; most of them soldiers of the anti-Nazi resistance and war heroes.
1945. Smiersz, Soviet military counterintelligence led by Ivan Sierov organizes a major manhunt in Augustów (postwar northern Poland) to eradicate anti-communist partisans. 7.000 people detained in filtration camps and tortured; approx 850 disappear without a trace.
1956. Hungarian revolution against communist rule, Red Army intervenes. 22.000 imprisoned, about 300 executed. Approx. 200.000 flee Hungary 1968. Prague demands autonomy, Red Army intervenes. Approx 100 people killed. 270.000 emigrate.
1979-1989. Soviet 'intervention' in Afghanistan. Approx. 1,5 Mio inhabitants died, 90% of them civilians. Country was completely destroyed. Mass killings were conducted on a regular basis (check Laghman, Kulchabat, Rauzdi, Padkhwab-e Shana massacres), toys were set as booby traps
1989-1991. Minor massacres during the gradual fall of the Soviet Union: April 9 Tragedy in Tbilisi, Georgia (19 people killed by Soviet military, mostly with spades); Bloody Sunday in Vilnius (14 victims) and Medininkai Massacre in Lithuania.
1994-1996. 1st Chechen War 1999-2000. 2nd Chechen War Up to 100.000 casualties, mostly civilians. Grozny, the capitol, destroyed. Filtration camps, kidnappings, tortures. Gang **** as purposeful torture method against men. 70% of households destroyed. Chechen terrorism is born.
2006. Deportation of Georgians from Russia. Several thousand ethnic Georgians were forced to leave Russia in the wake of orchestrated kidnappings, unlawful arrests, expulsions and overall mistreatment, some died while in Russian custody. Soft ethnic cleansing before the war.
2008. Russo-Georgian War Highly remarkable, no massacres were recorded. Apart from deliberate bombing of civilian population centers with cluster bombs.
Oh, wait, it was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state and thus a breach of UN-Charta. Somehow nobody cared.
2014. Russo-Ukrainian war starts Until 24 Feb 2022 total number of civilians killed was estimated at 4.317. Illegal detention, abduction tortures and intimidation of people contesting DPR and LPR were routine. Mass graves were discovered on the territories regained by Ukraine.
A truly genocidal nation
D
Deleted member 48881
Guest
So Medvedev said "The goal is peace for future generations of Ukrainians and the possibility of finally building an open Eurasia, from Lisbon to Vladivostok"
Any doubts left that Putin would go on invading other countries once he is done with Ukraine?
Any doubts left that Putin would go on invading other countries once he is done with Ukraine?
Bluerover
Player Valuation: £60m
Good post Pete.
Katyn was horrendous but strangely enough nobody brought for trial at Nuremberg. Germans only.
I am no fan of Nazis but some horrendous crimes carried out by the Allies. Hamburg and Dresden were disgusting. Dresden had almost zero military or strategic value. It was flattened.
All war is dreadful. God help Ukraine but there will no doubt be reprisals against any young Russian soldiers that are caught.
Why do humans do these things?
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
So Hamburg & Dresden were not contributing to the German war effort? At that time in the war, Dresden was a main communications hub, and was still producing for Germany's war effort.
Sorry mate, you need to study a lot more about what was going on in WW2.
And given that my parents' house received a direct hit during the May Blitz on Liverpool in 1941, it is a brutal truth that in those WW2 circumstances, you have to hit back: punch me in the face - don't cry when I knock you to the ground!
No time for anyone making us out to be the baddies in that conflict...
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Sinski
Player Valuation: £8m
Some of that stuff to do with Poland between WW1 and WW2 is why I have a different spelled surname to my family in Poland. Something to do with my great grandfather hiding from the Russians. Probably a good idea. Although I am not sure how changing a couple of letters in a name could fool someone.1570. Ivan the Terrible terminates autonomy of Veliky Novgorod. Women and children were massacred, churches burnt and looted. About 20 thousand people died, numerous were deported. Following famine did the rest.
1708. Peter I the Great destroys Kozak Hetmanate, a self-governing political and military entity between Poland and Russia, a predecessor of an independent Ukraine. It capitol, Batouryn was burnt and all inhabitants including women and children, executed.
1794. Russian army conquers Warsaw, a last act of Poland's partitions. Inhabitants of Praga, the eastern Warsaw suburb, including women and children are massacred; up to 20 thousand dies. Suvorov, Russian commander-in-chief is promoted to field marshal by Catherine the Great.
1863-1864. Repressions after January Rising on the territories of the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Governor General of Vilna, M. Muravyov nicknamed 'hangman' bans Latin alphabet, executes publicly combatants and deports 9.000 of them to Siberia, imposes enormous contributions. Muravyov was a true forerunner of what is labelled 'denazification" by Putin today, and which is, in fact a brutal and forcible russification. It was him who rooted out Catholicism in Belarus and turned it into a Russian-speaking country. He was widely cheered in Russia as a hero
1917-1920 Red Terror on the Polish and Ukrainian territories during Bolshevik Revolution, Polish-Bolshevik War and Ukrainian-Bolshevik War. For 3 years looting, rapin.g and killing raged between Vistula and Dnieper; prisoners of war were routinely killed by the Red Army. Particularly infamous was the Cavalry Army of Semyon Budyonny. Atrocities committed by Konarmiya were documented by Isaac Babel in his famous short stories collection, published in the 1920s in Soviet Union. Authorities regarded brutality towards 'counterrevolution' as plausible
1932-1933. Holodomor. Terror Famine, purposely induced by Stalin on the territory of Ukraine resulted in at least 2,5 Mio deaths according to lowest estimates and up to 10 Mio according to the highest. Though directed against landowners, it affected mostly ethnic Ukrainians.
1939-1941. Soviet occupation of eastern Poland. Approx. 800.000 were deported to barrens in the North and East, many of them died. 7.000 were executed, 110.000 imprisoned, 150.000 forced to join Red Army. Same policy was pursued by the USSR in the annexed Baltic countries
1941. Red Army forced to retreat by advancing Wehrmacht; NKVD however still had time to execute (mostly political) prisoners in the cities of Soviet-occupied Polish, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian territories. At least 10.000 were hastily shot.
1943. Discovery of mass graves in Katyń, at that time occupied by the Germans. At least 21.768 Polish citizens, mostly officers and policemen were shot by NKVD in 1940. Nazi propaganda exploits the massacre but Stalin coldly denies everything and accuses Germany of the killings. Thing is Germans wasn't ther at the time
It was not until 1990 that M. Gorbachev officially acknowledged Soviet responsibility for the mass murder and made documents accessible. Yeltsin even said "sorry". Russia never explained however, what happened to approx. 100.000 Polish officers which remained missing since 1939.
1945-1947. In all countries 'liberated' by USRR, Soviet&local security forces hunted down all who might oppose the communist rule. In Poland only, 6.000 were executed after mock trials and some 100.000 repressed; most of them soldiers of the anti-Nazi resistance and war heroes.
1945. Smiersz, Soviet military counterintelligence led by Ivan Sierov organizes a major manhunt in Augustów (postwar northern Poland) to eradicate anti-communist partisans. 7.000 people detained in filtration camps and tortured; approx 850 disappear without a trace.
1956. Hungarian revolution against communist rule, Red Army intervenes. 22.000 imprisoned, about 300 executed. Approx. 200.000 flee Hungary 1968. Prague demands autonomy, Red Army intervenes. Approx 100 people killed. 270.000 emigrate.
1979-1989. Soviet 'intervention' in Afghanistan. Approx. 1,5 Mio inhabitants died, 90% of them civilians. Country was completely destroyed. Mass killings were conducted on a regular basis (check Laghman, Kulchabat, Rauzdi, Padkhwab-e Shana massacres), toys were set as booby traps
1989-1991. Minor massacres during the gradual fall of the Soviet Union: April 9 Tragedy in Tbilisi, Georgia (19 people killed by Soviet military, mostly with spades); Bloody Sunday in Vilnius (14 victims) and Medininkai Massacre in Lithuania.
1994-1996. 1st Chechen War 1999-2000. 2nd Chechen War Up to 100.000 casualties, mostly civilians. Grozny, the capitol, destroyed. Filtration camps, kidnappings, tortures. Gang **** as purposeful torture method against men. 70% of households destroyed. Chechen terrorism is born.
2006. Deportation of Georgians from Russia. Several thousand ethnic Georgians were forced to leave Russia in the wake of orchestrated kidnappings, unlawful arrests, expulsions and overall mistreatment, some died while in Russian custody. Soft ethnic cleansing before the war.
2008. Russo-Georgian War Highly remarkable, no massacres were recorded. Apart from deliberate bombing of civilian population centers with cluster bombs.
Oh, wait, it was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state and thus a breach of UN-Charta. Somehow nobody cared.
2014. Russo-Ukrainian war starts Until 24 Feb 2022 total number of civilians killed was estimated at 4.317. Illegal detention, abduction tortures and intimidation of people contesting DPR and LPR were routine. Mass graves were discovered on the territories regained by Ukraine.
A truly genocidal nation
-Ski vs. -sky?
Robert Heenan
Player Valuation: £225k
I'm getting fed up with Asians in this country regarding this war. Don't get me wrong, I get along with them very well but almost all Asians I've spoken to regarding this Ukraine war, mostly sit on the fence and come out with crap such as "we don't really know what's going on" etc and they refuse to condemn Putin and Russia. I've come across quite a few blaming Britain and US for the war.
At first I thought it was a few Asians but it seems like it's all of them. Could they be influenced by the stance India, Pakistan and Bangladesh who have more or less sided with Russia?
At first I thought it was a few Asians but it seems like it's all of them. Could they be influenced by the stance India, Pakistan and Bangladesh who have more or less sided with Russia?
NorthernBlue
Player Valuation: £35m
Damn all them Asians
“Urrrgh how controversial can I pretend to
be….”
efcfanwirral
Player Valuation: £30m
Huge difference between the desire to do this and the ability to though.
Death
I'll take down dat coal powered MG, I tel u Hwat
That clear racism apart. Yes side with Ukraine sovereignty. But in no way should we be siding with the west and NATO or Putin's government.
Great video here from a former nato soldier.
With 24 hour news cycle of being told how to feel. How many posters can vault themselves routinely denouncing all other current and past unjust wars, occupations and all the atrocities that come with it.
And instead of screaming 'whattaboutism'and 'this is the Ukraine thread.' Ask yourself why you can't present me with the vaults of yourself doing it and why only this one.
Then turn your TV on and see the correlation.
Stand with Ukraine. On your own merits. Be antiwar.
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