certain ghouls tried very hard to do just that, also someone's favourite 'Joseph' was quite happy to divvy up the spoils with his brand new pal.
Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
- Start date
- Status
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Ukrainian political scientist and contributor to the Kyiv Post, Volodymyr Fesenko, on Ukrainian attitudes to a peace deal involving territorial concessions:
"About a third are against any deal, a third want a deal in any circumstances including through concessions to Russia, and a third are not sure."
I think that's a bit too conservative, tbh. I'd imagine now there's a clear majority in that benighted country that's been utterly devastated - and only in an upright position by doses of cash and defensive equipment from western Europe and the US - that any deal should be taken as long as it froze the battlefield as it is and ended the war for good. They've been invaded and then they've been completely let down by their own government in not seeking peace talks weeks after this war broke out. Needlessly hundreds of thousands have been killed for a defeat much worse than the one they'd have suffered in the first year of this war.
"About a third are against any deal, a third want a deal in any circumstances including through concessions to Russia, and a third are not sure."
I think that's a bit too conservative, tbh. I'd imagine now there's a clear majority in that benighted country that's been utterly devastated - and only in an upright position by doses of cash and defensive equipment from western Europe and the US - that any deal should be taken as long as it froze the battlefield as it is and ended the war for good. They've been invaded and then they've been completely let down by their own government in not seeking peace talks weeks after this war broke out. Needlessly hundreds of thousands have been killed for a defeat much worse than the one they'd have suffered in the first year of this war.
There were no peace talks to be had, ffs
I think you are confusing the word peace with the words unconditional surrender, cos that all Vlad would have listened to.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
The agreement which the Ukraine in principal agreed to several months after the smo started was not an unconditional surrender by any stretch of the imagination. It was essentially the immediate implementation of the Minsk II agreement. In short agreement to not join NATO, a degree of autonomy for four regions - with internationally observed referendums, the protection of russian language and culture under the law. It even included acceptance on the Ukraine joining the EU in theory.
Bo Jo arrived and torpedoed it. It was literally the best agreement the Ukraine would have ever been able to get after the invasion - however this ends up now they will end up in a far worse situation thanks to good old Boris
WHat are the links to this? Genuinely not seen them
Evertonian political scientist and contributor to GOT Davek reckons:
"At least 75% of Ukrainians want a deal with Russia".
No finer reference point than that folks
..
Does this make it more palatable, rather than “invasion”?
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
I'll throw up various sources so you can judge for yourself the events. Pro western, pro peace ones - I'll avoid any Russian based sources.
Ukraine-Russia Peace Is as Elusive as Ever. But in 2022 They Were Talking. (Published 2024)
Representatives from the warring nations held peace talks in the early weeks of the Russian invasion. They fizzled. Documents from those talks show why any new ones will face major obstacles.
Diplomacy Watch: Did the West scuttle the Istanbul talks or not?
A former official’s insider information sheds light on how peace negotiations failed in April 2022
responsiblestatecraft.org
Verifying connection
peacenews.info
Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine?
A recent piece in Foreign Affairs revealed that Kyiv and Moscow may have had a tentative deal to end the war all the way back in April.
responsiblestatecraft.org
The foreign affairs piece is also informative but behind a paywall.
The idea gets torpedoes as a none thing by oro Ukrainian sites and neo cons sites like the AC, Hudson Institute etc. but the latter are invested with this not ending and the former won't want it to be known why it didn't end right back then.
bluestevon
Player Valuation: £80m
If you weren't that keen to jump on the first thing you see why not finish reading the post....
Oh what's that word I use later....invasion.
You’re right. I was so distracted by the early, exculpatory weasel words, I didn’t catch your later, accurate language.
I havent got time to read them now but arent these the Erdogan talks that were favourble to Russia and then, the most recent one, Russia refused as it was not acceptable terms for them?I'll throw up various sources so you can judge for yourself the events. Pro western, pro peace ones - I'll avoid any Russian based sources.
Ukraine-Russia Peace Is as Elusive as Ever. But in 2022 They Were Talking. (Published 2024)
Representatives from the warring nations held peace talks in the early weeks of the Russian invasion. They fizzled. Documents from those talks show why any new ones will face major obstacles.www.nytimes.com
Diplomacy Watch: Did the West scuttle the Istanbul talks or not?
A former official’s insider information sheds light on how peace negotiations failed in April 2022
Verifying connection
peacenews.info
Diplomacy Watch: Did Boris Johnson help stop a peace deal in Ukraine?
A recent piece in Foreign Affairs revealed that Kyiv and Moscow may have had a tentative deal to end the war all the way back in April.
The foreign affairs piece is also informative but behind a paywall.
The idea gets torpedoes as a none thing by oro Ukrainian sites and neo cons sites like the AC, Hudson Institute etc. but the latter are invested with this not ending and the former won't want it to be known why it didn't end right back then.
I will read when I get back to my desk
Why are you such a Putin dick rider Dave?
Another tourist vlogger arrested and detained after visiting east russia. What are they hiding?
Trump will end up supporting Ukraines goals and Putin dick sucker @davek will be in tears
- Status