Today's Football 2015 / 16

[ilikecheese]

How wasn't that a pen on Huth!

It was given at the end

 

[kenada_blue]

Yes, as did Stevie G when he made a career out of it.

Mr GBH was the king of pure power running hoping for someone to make an attempt.

Pienaar was always clever at it. Close ball control, shield, slight touch from behind, fall over. Freekick.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Even Heskey saying Vardy dived.

 

[Mozza1987]

True. But there's no infringement there. It's a collision Vardy has generated. The defender hasn't done anything or attempted to win the ball, so no foul.

Another example would be someone shielding the ball and falling over after feeling slightly contact from behind to win a foul. Is that simulation? Or is that a decision from the ref to decide if it's just a foul or not?

How is that example the same mate? The defender has made contact from him doing it himself. Here Vardy has thrown his legs into him. The defender can't do anything about it because he has tried to con the ref into that the defender has made the tackle.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Henry is full of crap, multiple fowls for a penalty
What are we playing rugby?

Looking forward to his evenhanded (see what I did there?) analysis on the arse v Palace game later.

 

[Tubey]

Those are the same things, though. You can't "deliberately make an action to be fouled", because that would negate the thing being a foul in the first place. If your argument is as I understand it, you are saying that it boils down to the ref seeing it as an accident or the ref seeing it as a foul against the attacker, the latter of which would clearly be a case of them successfully deceiving the ref.

Therefore its simulation.

That really isn't how it works. You can put your leg in a position where the opponent can make contact. That isn't simulation, it isn't cheating - it's nothing. It's what players do all over the pitch.

Vardy hasn't deceived the referee, because contact was made, there was a reasonable case following that contact that he couldn't stay up, therefore he was within his right to go to the ground.

When that occurs, these are the only two options available to the referee.

1 - The defender made contact with the striker, but it was an accidental collision, therefore play should continue.

2- The defender has made contact with the striker, and in doing so committed a foul, therefore a penalty is given.

In none of those scenarios is it simulation.

Someone posted a tweet before where there were two options - RT if a dive, Favourite if a penalty. That shows the ignorance of the issue - there's a third option; it was simply neither. Two players coming together, wave play on. It doesn't matter if the player screams for the penalty, because that in itself isn't simulation as that is just a belief from the player it was one.

 

[Toast]

Mr GBH was the king of pure power running hoping for someone to make an attempt.

Pienaar was always clever at it. Close ball control, shield, slight touch from behind, fall over. Freekick.

You've summed up Steven Pienaar in one sentence there mate.

Osman tries the same, but fails massively at it.

 

[kenada_blue]

How is that example the same mate? The defender has made contact from him doing it himself. Here Vardy has thrown his legs into him. The defender can't do anything about it because he has tried to con the ref into that the defender has made the tackle.

They're both similar in that a player tries to get his body in front of a defender to "win" a foul. It's up to the ref to decide if it's a foul for me.

The old "would it be a foul anywhere on the pitch" can be used to. He does that on the halfway line, is he getting booked for simulation or just not getting a foul?

 

[billybeeru]

The incident with Vardy isn't a yellow card for me. He creates contact with another player without playing the ball, which is simply a foul. It should have been a free kick for West Ham. Just because he was trying to win a penalty doesn't mean it's "simulation." Simulation is pretending something has happened which hasn't actually happened. Vardy didn't pretend something happened - he just fouled the other player, hoping it would go in his favor.

Another example would be someone shielding the ball and falling over after feeling slightly contact from behind to win a foul. Is that simulation? Or is that a decision from the ref to decide if it's just a foul or not?

Exactly. You could find other examples too that involve this kind of contact but aren't classified as simulation.

 

[tsubaki]

That really isn't how it works. You can put your leg in a position where the opponent can make contact. That isn't simulation, it isn't cheating - it's nothing. It's what players do all over the pitch.

Vardy hasn't deceived the referee, because contact was made, there was a reasonable case following that contact that he couldn't stay up, therefore he was within his right to go to the ground.

When that occurs, these are the only two options available to the referee.

1 - The defender made contact with the striker, but it was an accidental collision, therefore play should continue.

2- The defender has made contact with the striker, and in doing so committed a foul, therefore a penalty is given.

In none of those scenarios is it simulation.

Someone posted a tweet before where there were two options - RT if a dive, Favourite if a penalty. That shows the ignorance of the issue - there's a third option; it was simply neither. Two players coming together, wave play on. It doesn't matter if the player screams for the penalty, because that in itself isn't simulation as that is just a belief from the player it was one.

You can't make that argument and also say that he did it in order to "buy" a penalty, though.

Once you say that, you have to acknowledge that it was an act intended to deceive the referee and that Moss was right to book him for it.

 

[Mozza1987]

That really isn't how it works. You can put your leg in a position where the opponent can make contact. That isn't simulation, it isn't cheating - it's nothing. It's what players do all over the pitch.

Vardy hasn't deceived the referee, because contact was made, there was a reasonable case following that contact that he couldn't stay up, therefore he was within his right to go to the ground.

When that occurs, these are the only two options available to the referee.

1 - The defender made contact with the striker, but it was an accidental collision, therefore play should continue.

2- The defender has made contact with the striker, and in doing so committed a foul, therefore a penalty is given.

In none of those scenarios is it simulation.

Someone posted a tweet before where there were two options - RT if a dive, Favourite if a penalty. That shows the ignorance of the issue - there's a third option; it was simply neither. Two players coming together, wave play on. It doesn't matter if the player screams for the penalty, because that in itself isn't simulation as that is just a belief from the player it was one.

How can you honestly say that Vardy hasn't tried to deceive the ref there? You can put your leg in a position hoping the defender then makes contact but that never even happened here. He threw his legs at the defender to make sure there was contact. Very different to putting your leg near them and seeing if they make contact from then doing it themselves. What's the defender meant to do in that situation? He is a cheat and rightly booked for it.

 

[Mozza1987]

They're both similar in that a player tries to get his body in front of a defender to "win" a foul. It's up to the ref to decide if it's a foul for me.

The old "would it be a foul anywhere on the pitch" can be used to. He does that on the halfway line, is he getting booked for simulation or just not getting a foul?

It's not the same as you said there was slight contact from the defender and he goes down easily. Did the defender make slight contact on Vardy from him making a tackle to win the ball or did Vardy throw his legs there making the contact happen?

 

[Tubey]

You can't make that argument and also say that he did it in order to "buy" a penalty, though.

Once you say that, you have to acknowledge that it was an act intended to deceive the referee and that Moss was right to book him for it.

No, because that isn't the rule. Sorry but it just isn't. A player can try and engineer a situation where connection is made; that is not simulation by any definition of the rule.

You're mistaking the term "deceiving the referee" with "simulation". They're not the same. You can be naturally fouled or you can try and put yourself in a position to be fouled - neither of which are illegal.

If a striker runs past a defender who leaves a leg, then the striker can go over that leg with his trailing foot and get a penalty. Yes, he could have avoided that contact, but by deliberately going over it it doesn't mean the striker has "simulated" the foul.

 

[Muggins]

Ahh the Premier League.

David Luiz likes this.

 

[Tubey]

How can you honestly say that Vardy hasn't tried to deceive the ref there? You can put your leg in a position hoping the defender then makes contact but that never even happened here. He threw his legs at the defender to make sure there was contact. Very different to putting your leg near them and seeing if they make contact from then doing it themselves. What's the defender meant to do in that situation? He is a cheat and rightly booked for it.

It's bizarre - you're describing the reasons why it wasn't simulation, then saying it was at the end with your final sentence!

It is what it is - Vardy has came together with the defender, they've clashed, no foul, no dive, play goes on.