Tim Howard

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Groucho said:
I'm not putting a definitive points tally on it, but Howard has not been on top form this season, and possibly last season.

Whether Robles would've made a difference we'll never know but last season he had 3 games on the run and kept 3 clean sheets. For me, he deserved a run then.

Now that (for most people) Howard is less than excellent, surely it's time to give Joel a try? Otherwise what's the point in him being here?

I'll admit we probably compare every goalie to Nev, who was the best in the world (tm) so all goalies will fall short of our idol but for me and a lot of others, Tim Howard is not playing well - Martinez may even be damaging his confidence by not giving him a break.
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I think this is unfair. Nigel Martyn was almost universally loved at Goodison. He wasn't in Southall's league but he did the simple things well, he worked on his weaknesses and he gave his all for Everton. As a result, he is widely considered our best keeper since Nev. Evertonians don't demand perfection, just effort and improvement. The problem a lot of us have is we don't see this Howard.
 
steken1 said:
Setting up defensively and actually being able to execute that plan depends on quality.

I'll put it simply. A conference side may go to Arsenal. They will decide to try and get them back to their ground and set up to defend. Due to individual ability they won't be able to stop arsenal scoring 3 4 5 whatever.

Everton may go there play attacking football but concede 2 soft goals as a result of Tim Howard.

That doesn't mean because he conceded less he's the better keeper.

Goalkeeper is one of the easier positions to judge. It's clear to everyone without stars and striped pyjamas how bad he is.
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We're comparing Premier League clubs to Premier League clubs here, though (except in Joel's case, where we're comparing Premier League clubs to lower league clubs). Our defense does not play any better than most of the clubs we're comparing ourselves with -- you can tell because we give up more quality scoring opportunities and shots on target than almost any other club. Some of that is almost certainly due to Howard not doing a good enough job claiming crosses, but it's ridiculous to just wave your hands and pretend that all of the other scoring opportunities we give up are simply because Howard doesn't organize well enough or the defense is too nervous because of him or something. We give up a shocking number of shots. Howard is one of the busiest goalkeepers in the Premier League. Yes, he makes a fair number of mistakes -- he's not an elite goalkeeper or even a top 7 goalkeeper. The thing is, though, he doesn't make them at any higher a rate than any other of those mid- to lower-table keepers. If he really did, we'd be at or near the bottom of the league in goals conceded, not 14th.

Is Howard good enough for our club going forward? Clearly not -- he's a mid-table quality keeper now and one of the oldest players in the league.

Is Joel a better option? I don't really know, but no one has seen him in action more than Roberto Martinez, and Martinez clearly doesn't think he's good enough to be anything more than a cup keeper and backup in case of injury. Martinez has every incentive to play Joel in the league, but he clearly doesn't trust him enough, even though he's under immense pressure to drop Howard.

So clearly we need to sign a new goalkeeper before next season, and that new goalkeeper needs to be someone who's good enough to regularly start for a team challenging for a Champions League spot. Anyone disagree with that statement?
 
mlyons said:
We're comparing Premier League clubs to Premier League clubs here, though (except in Joel's case, where we're comparing Premier League clubs to lower league clubs). Our defense does not play any better than most of the clubs we're comparing ourselves with -- you can tell because we give up more quality scoring opportunities and shots on target than almost any other club. Some of that is almost certainly due to Howard not doing a good enough job claiming crosses, but it's ridiculous to just wave your hands and pretend that all of the other scoring opportunities we give up are simply because Howard doesn't organize well enough or the defense is too nervous because of him or something. We give up a shocking number of shots. Howard is one of the busiest goalkeepers in the Premier League. Yes, he makes a fair number of mistakes -- he's not an elite goalkeeper or even a top 7 goalkeeper. The thing is, though, he doesn't make them at any higher a rate than any other of those mid- to lower-table keepers. If he really did, we'd be at or near the bottom of the league in goals conceded, not 14th.

Is Howard good enough for our club going forward? Clearly not -- he's a mid-table quality keeper now and one of the oldest players in the league.

Is Joel a better option? I don't really know, but no one has seen him in action more than Roberto Martinez, and Martinez clearly doesn't think he's good enough to be anything more than a cup keeper and backup in case of injury. Martinez has every incentive to play Joel in the league, but he clearly doesn't trust him enough, even though he's under immense pressure to drop Howard.

So clearly we need to sign a new goalkeeper before next season, and that new goalkeeper needs to be someone who's good enough to regularly start for a team challenging for a Champions League spot. Anyone disagree with that statement?
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Not at all. We agree he's not good enough. I don't actually blame Howard. He doesn't pick himself..
 

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