Tim Howard

[Zatara]

Well, to highlight the "players have it tough coming from Utd" viewpoint youve listed down a few.

To say people who didnt rate neville also didnt rate cleverley is a bit odd to me. Totaly different players and i think Evertonians (at least most) rate players how they see them. In fact id even say that we even talk up players...

Cleverley, for me was someone i suggested we sign a couple of years ago...and i didnt rate neville. How about Saha as well so many rated him same as gibson but both injury prone.

Howard was sold by Utd as he wasnt good enough for them....hes been average at best for us each season and now he should be binned.

Of course they can 'just rate him', but any ex Man Utd player playing for Everton has a disadvantage with lots of Evertonians before he kicks a ball in anger. Why are my examples 'a bit odd'? All I've done is 'rate them' which is what youre suggesting.

 

[Zatara]

Well, to highlight the "players have it tough coming from Utd" viewpoint youve listed down a few.

To say people who didnt rate neville also didnt rate cleverley is a bit odd to me. Totaly different players and i think Evertonians (at least most) rate players how they see them. In fact id even say that we even talk up players...

Cleverley, for me was someone i suggested we sign a couple of years ago...and i didnt rate neville. How about Saha as well so many rated him same as gibson but both injury prone.

Howard was sold by Utd as he wasnt good enough for them....hes been average at best for us each season and now he should be binned.

Of course they can 'just rate him', but any ex Man Utd player playing for Everton has a disadvantage with lots of Evertonians before he kicks a ball in anger. Why are my examples 'a bit odd'? All I've done is 'rate them' which is what youre suggesting.

 

[Zatara]

Well, to highlight the "players have it tough coming from Utd" viewpoint youve listed down a few.

To say people who didnt rate neville also didnt rate cleverley is a bit odd to me. Totaly different players and i think Evertonians (at least most) rate players how they see them. In fact id even say that we even talk up players...

Cleverley, for me was someone i suggested we sign a couple of years ago...and i didnt rate neville. How about Saha as well so many rated him same as gibson but both injury prone.

Howard was sold by Utd as he wasnt good enough for them....hes been average at best for us each season and now he should be binned.

Of course they can 'just rate him', but any ex Man Utd player playing for Everton has a disadvantage with lots of Evertonians before he kicks a ball in anger. Why are my examples 'a bit odd'? All I've done is 'rate them' which is what youre suggesting.

 

[ilikecheese]

Well, to highlight the "players have it tough coming from Utd" viewpoint youve listed down a few.

To say people who didnt rate neville also didnt rate cleverley is a bit odd to me. Totaly different players and i think Evertonians (at least most) rate players how they see them. In fact id even say that we even talk up players...

Cleverley, for me was someone i suggested we sign a couple of years ago...and i didnt rate neville. How about Saha as well so many rated him same as gibson but both injury prone.

Howard was sold by Utd as he wasnt good enough for them....hes been average at best for us each season and now he should be binned.

Except of course he's been better than average in several seasons. 06/07, 07/08, 08/09, 13/14...

 

[riddick]

Except of course he's been better than average in several seasons. 06/07, 07/08, 08/09, 13/14...

But he hasn't been average in almost 18 months

 

[ilikecheese]

But he hasn't been average in almost 18 months

Nobody is arguing that mate. He was responding to a conversation about why Howard has never been accepted by a contingent of our fan base.

The most common argument is because he wasn't good enough for United so he's not good enough for us. Even though he has been very good in several seasons for us.

 

[USABlue]

But he hasn't been average in almost 18 months

That's a fair assessment (no sarcasm btw).Tim has always been weak at defending crosses and relied on his reflexes to just "Shot stop" but at his age he can't get away with it so it's being exposed. It'll be time to look at getting a new keeper in the summer and no one's really arguing that point. I think some(myself included) mainly take issue with people "rewriting history" acting as if we'd have been in the top 4 the last 5-8 years if only we had a better keeper. It happened with Distin last year as well. Had an awful final season or so and people started saying he's always been poor despite him being a quality defender most of his career (that back pass was terrible though). Whoever plays in the net for us this season, I just hope they do well and help us win. You can bet there will be those watching every match with the Robles and Howard threads open eagerly waiting to post whenever the other messes up to "score points" on the "other camp"

 

[Zatara]

Nonsense.

Anyone who has even a limited understanding of goalkeeping can see that at best he has been an average keeper...the way you're going on its as if he should be put on a pedestal for being average, in fact youre main "go to" point being that "people dont rate him as he wasnt good enough for Utd".

Thats more nonsense, the fact is hes average and Ferguson saw that pretty quickly and replaced him as he wasnt good enough for a team going for titles...for Moyes, he was fine with an average keeper.

If he is so good why have no big money offers come in for him?

Id actually say hes overrated BECAUSE he is american and BECAUSE he came from Utd and BECAUSE of his persona...not despite them.

If he was English and signed from the championship he would be seen for what he is.

Except of course he's been better than average in several seasons. 06/07, 07/08, 08/09, 13/14...

 

[Zatara]

Nonsense.

Anyone who has even a limited understanding of goalkeeping can see that at best he has been an average keeper...the way you're going on its as if he should be put on a pedestal for being average, in fact youre main "go to" point being that "people dont rate him as he wasnt good enough for Utd".

Thats more nonsense, the fact is hes average and Ferguson saw that pretty quickly and replaced him as he wasnt good enough for a team going for titles...for Moyes, he was fine with an average keeper.

If he is so good why have no big money offers come in for him?

Id actually say hes overrated BECAUSE he is american and BECAUSE he came from Utd and BECAUSE of his persona...not despite them.

If he was English and signed from the championship he would be seen for what he is.

Except of course he's been better than average in several seasons. 06/07, 07/08, 08/09, 13/14...

 

[Zatara]

Distin was a major strength in our defence. Howard has been an average keeper, i dont see any posts claiming we would consistently be im top 4 with a better keeper?

However if we had Neville Southall in his prime then we would have easily made top 4 in Martinez 1st season...

That's a fair assessment (no sarcasm btw).Tim has always been weak at defending crosses and relied on his reflexes to just "Shot stop" but at his age he can't get away with it so it's being exposed. It'll be time to look at getting a new keeper in the summer and no one's really arguing that point. I think some(myself included) mainly take issue with people "rewriting history" acting as if we'd have been in the top 4 the last 5-8 years if only we had a better keeper. It happened with Distin last year as well. Had an awful final season or so and people started saying he's always been poor despite him being a quality defender most of his career (that back pass was terrible though). Whoever plays in the net for us this season, I just hope they do well and help us win. You can bet there will be those watching every match with the Robles and Howard threads open eagerly waiting to post whenever the other messes up to "score points" on the "other camp"

 

[USABlue]

Distin was a major strength in our defence. Howard has been an average keeper, i dont see any posts claiming we would consistently be im top 4 with a better keeper?

However if we had Neville Southall in his prime then we would have easily made top 4 in Martinez 1st season...

Southall is a club legend, without a doubt we would have but a prime neville southall was never an option. Howard played well in Martinez first season and was terrible last year( just like barry). We've stuck with Howard this long as he's been eyes good enough in our managers eyes that we could look to spend our limited funds elsewhere. It takes a few years to build a squad and we've gotten progressively younger and more talented each window, it just takes times. Can't ship out 8 players and bring in replacements all in a few windows especially with our funds. We brought in Rom, Besic, Del, galloway, mori, etc over the past few windows as those were deemed to be filling more pressing issues. I'm guessing martinez figured Howard would do a decent enough job that we could spend our money getting those other positions filled. Getting Rom was a huge deal for us, took almost our whole budget that window, and we'd be screwed without him. I'm sure we'll start looking at new keepers soon as we seem to be well stocked in the outfield now at all positions besides a backup for Rom.

 

[Zatara]

I think he was hoping for one more season out of howard...gamble has failed.

Southall is a club legend, without a doubt we would have but a prime neville southall was never an option. Howard played well in Martinez first season and was terrible last year( just like barry). We've stuck with Howard this long as he's been eyes good enough in our managers eyes that we could look to spend our limited funds elsewhere. It takes a few years to build a squad and we've gotten progressively younger and more talented each window, it just takes times. Can't ship out 8 players and bring in replacements all in a few windows especially with our funds. We brought in Rom, Besic, Del, galloway, mori, etc over the past few windows as those were deemed to be filling more pressing issues. I'm guessing martinez figured Howard would do a decent enough job that we could spend our money getting those other positions filled. Getting Rom was a huge deal for us, took almost our whole budget that window, and we'd be screwed without him. I'm sure we'll start looking at new keepers soon as we seem to be well stocked in the outfield now at all positions besides a backup for Rom.

 

[ilikecheese]

Nonsense.

Anyone who has even a limited understanding of goalkeeping can see that at best he has been an average keeper...the way you're going on its as if he should be put on a pedestal for being average, in fact youre main "go to" point being that "people dont rate him as he wasnt good enough for Utd".

Thats more nonsense, the fact is hes average and Ferguson saw that pretty quickly and replaced him as he wasnt good enough for a team going for titles...for Moyes, he was fine with an average keeper.

If he is so good why have no big money offers come in for him?

Id actually say hes overrated BECAUSE he is american and BECAUSE he came from Utd and BECAUSE of his persona...not despite them.

If he was English and signed from the championship he would be seen for what he is.

Talking bollocks now...his record in the seasons I mentioned speak for themselves.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Performances or lack of performances are rewarded with there due merits at this football club but not if you're names are Tim Howard and Joel Robles.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

We are the Tories of footy, rewarding failures with constant praise.