Current Affairs The Would Be Emperor Has No Clothes (aka POTUS 47)

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Pittsburgh Footy said:
People that voted for Trump and wanted to "clean up the border and deport all the migrants" aren't thinking, at all, about the top half of this chart.

But that's what they voted for, whether they intended to or not
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Of course they aren’t. Considering the man they voted for doesn’t even appear to know the difference between an asylum seeker and someone released from an insane asylum, they probably don’t even know those people exist.
 
LinekersLegs said:
Yes, those are the views of the ones who did vote - I kinda think they are important as they at least proved they were willing to vote and potentially persuadable. A “bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” as it were.

But OK lets look at those who didn’t vote. You keep on saying that the primary reason those people sat this one out is Gaza. Where is your evidence? It probably did make a difference in Michigan (although hard to exactly quantity) but Harris needed WI and PA too.

You have also never specified what message or actions you think would have brought these single issue Gaza voters off the sidelines other than a vague “be less pro Israel”. That encompasses a huge range of policy positions, none of which you ever expand on. For instance how many of these voters would an “Uncommitted” endorsement have made a difference with? And a politician changing their position on an issue can have both positive and negative effects, you have no evidence that there wouldn’t have been an even greater swing against.

“If only Harris had done this (unspecified action/message) I believe (without evidence) that she would have got more voters in the states she needed to beat Trump so I’m right in what I said” is a game all of us could probably play but it doesn’t mean we still wouldn’t have Trump et al.
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The should have been less pro Israel also ignores the knock on effect that this would have, it would certainly piss of APAC - with the fallout from that etc.

No foreign policy issue has any significant bearing during a us election - with the exception of Vietnam but that goes without having to explain why it was different really.

Ultimately it looks more like a case of a unpopular incumbent losing an election due to the apathy and the feeling of vote for something different - rather than a sudden upswell of popular Trumpism.

Kind of similar to the way Starmer won an election in the UK more due to people deciding they'd had enough of the Tories rather than any love for Labour.

Initial signs from the names coming out as appointments though are seriously worrying, unless you are a Zionist or rabid Chinaphobe.
 
Efcjake said:
I'm trying to think of one election where it happened and I can't tbh.

Tbf when you consider yourself the leader of the free world the other countries don't impact you, you impact them.
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Big sod off country, thousands of miles away from any genuine threat, it breeds an insular view also. 35 years as basically the defacto ruler of the planet (with zero consequences for whatever actions) just magnifies that.

Don't blame Americans for not regarding foreign policy as a voting issue - in terms of effect on pretty much the vast majority it will have zero bearing on their lives
 
TN Toffee said:
Of course they aren’t. Considering the man they voted for doesn’t even appear to know the difference between an asylum seeker and someone released from an insane asylum, they probably don’t even know those people exist.
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I just had this thought trump will shut down all US mental institutions in order to stop Asylum seekers....
 
bluestevon said:
Americans don't vote on foreign policy, they never have and likely never will do.
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Not sure this is fully true, Bush probably got a lot of pro foreign policy votes in 2004 and there was probably a swing back against McCain in 2008.

And Vietnam likely changed votes too.

But don't think either Ukraine or Gaza policy played much of a role in this one, except on the margins.
 
Efcjake said:
Hahahahaha killed me this.

Just sign over the rest of the government to Putin
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I actually line Gabbard, Very strong independant minded woman.

She does have the hammer and sickle tattoood on her arse though and drinks vodka neat in -25c whilst playing the balalyka, so maybe that explains me liking her.
 
LinekersLegs said:
Not sure this is fully true, Bush probably got a lot of pro foreign policy votes in 2004 and there was probably a swing back against McCain in 2008.

And Vietnam likely changed votes too.

But don't think either Ukraine or Gaza policy played much of a role in this one, except on the margins.
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Yeah in .y next post I kinda rectified the 'never' part as in Vietnam it for sure was an issue. In the future I'm unsure though...

On the bush, McCain thing, I dont think it changed people's votes, maybe it did drag some out who'd normally stayed home though.
 
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