Current Affairs The worst post-war Prime Minister

[Armaghtoffee]

Not really; Major did most of the legwork over Ireland and certainly took far more of a risk.

He did initially then jeapordised it all to try and protect his slim majority. He gambled with lives to save his own skin.

 

[Methuselah]

Just from an anecdote, but apparently he was a piece of work.

The famous usually have two distinct images. Private and public. In private, I think Churchill, like most famous people, was arrogant, self-centred, selfish, ill-tempered and impatient. I have probably missed some out.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The famous usually have two distinct images. Private and public. In private, I think Churchill, like most famous people, was arrogant, self-centred, selfish, ill-tempered and impatient. I have probably missed some out.

Mass-murderer?

 

[tsubaki]

He did initially then jeapordised it all to try and protect his slim majority. He gambled with lives to save his own skin.

that assumes PIRA were genuine in what they were offering; what they did to Jerry McCabe proved that they weren't at the time

 

[Armaghtoffee]

that assumes PIRA were genuine in what they were offering; what they did to Jerry McCabe proved that they weren't at the time

If they weren’t genuine then there wouldn’t have been talks. And that is no excuse or justification whatsoever for Gardai McCabe.

Similarly, if Major had been genuine, why did he decide that UUP votes were more important than a peace process?

Blair was the British PM who saw it through, ably assisted by Mowlem. He deserves credit for that.

 

[peteblue]

Mass-murderer?

For which today’s democracies and indeed Russia should be eternally indebted ........

 

[peteblue]

Bit of a side note on Churchill an uncle who lived with us till his death hated Churchill called him everything under the sun, considering the adulation around him I found this odd, anyone shed any light on why this would be.

Was your uncle German ?.......

 

[tsubaki]

If they weren’t genuine then there wouldn’t have been talks. And that is no excuse or justification whatsoever for Gardai McCabe.

Similarly, if Major had been genuine, why did he decide that UUP votes were more important than a peace process?

Blair was the British PM who saw it through, ably assisted by Mowlem. He deserves credit for that.

What was the alternative for Major? If he had lost Unionist support he would have been out of Government and noone would have had any talks at all. The important thing was that he started the talks, backed the talks and kept them going even when the IRA were openly pissing in his chips (like blowing up Docklands on the day they were due to be at No.10, for instance).

What is more he did it whilst leading a party that had been blown up itself less than ten years before, which had seen its MPs assassinated in other attacks, and with a wafer thin majority as well. (edit) I am no Tory but I cannot think of a more valid example of political courage than what he did with NI in his time in office.

There is IMHO no comparison between what Major did and what Blair did, indeed the best evidence for it being Major's achievement is that it has persisted whilst everything else Blair touched (the EU, PFI, student funding, Murdoch's marriage) has turned to faecal matter.

 

[Kurt.]

Bit of a side note on Churchill an uncle who lived with us till his death hated Churchill called him everything under the sun, considering the adulation around him I found this odd, anyone shed any light on why this would be.

He’s hated throughout the South Wales valleys I believe

 

[bring the ghost on]

In what way was she not good for the country ?

Thatcher's fundamental belief is that the Government should not invest in public services, it shouldn't regulate markets, it shouldn't interfere in the running of businesses by giving employment rights to workers. Essentially - it's all about small government and letting the free market sort everything else out.

If you genuinely think that is the way things should be, then that's fine, you will obviously rate Thatcher's reign.

However, I think it results in horrible inequality and social deprivation. It favours nepotism, exploitation and profiteering at all costs. That much is demonstrable under her reign and successive Governments which followed her mantra.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

What was the alternative for Major? If he had lost Unionist support he would have been out of Government and noone would have had any talks at all. The important thing was that he started the talks, backed the talks and kept them going even when the IRA were openly pissing in his chips (like blowing up Docklands on the day they were due to be at No.10, for instance).

What is more he did it whilst leading a party that had been blown up itself less than ten years before, which had seen its MPs assassinated in other attacks, and with a wafer thin majority as well. (edit) I am no Tory but I cannot think of a more valid example of political courage than what he did with NI in his time in office.

There is IMHO no comparison between what Major did and what Blair did, indeed the best evidence for it being Major's achievement is that it has persisted whilst everything else Blair touched (the EU, PFI, student funding, Murdoch's marriage) has turned to faecal matter.

Thatchers government had a channel of communication to the IRA. This isn’t something you can laud Major for as it long pre-dated him.

I fully accept he took a risk by initially being the British figurehead of peace talks but when it came to political expediency he chose his political career ahead of the greater good.

Blair took the mantle on, ended the supremacy of the Orange Order and helped deliver a peace deal.

No matter the rest of his political career, his work in Ireland must be acknowledged.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

For which today’s democracies and indeed Russia should be eternally indebted ........

This will be a big statement to justify Pete.

The stage is yours.

 

[Kurt.]

Thatchers government had a channel of communication to the IRA. This isn’t something you can laud Major for as it long pre-dated him.

I fully accept he took a risk by initially being the British figurehead of peace talks but when it came to political expediency he chose his political career ahead of the greater good.

Blair took the mantle on, ended the supremacy of the Orange Order and helped deliver a peace deal.

No matter the rest of his political career, his work in Ireland must be acknowledged.

Thatcher was up to her neck with the IRA... although it will be denied by her supporters

 

[peteblue]

This will be a big statement to justify Pete.

The stage is yours.

Not really. It’s a given that he oversaw the defeat of Germany in WW2. He also provided the munitions and support for the Russians to fight against Germany. People died, many people, even the USA blew up a Japanese ship carrying over 1800 British servicemen, it happens unfortunately. But the world is in a better place as a result of Churchill, of that there can really be no argument......

 

[roydo]

Thatcher was up to her neck with the IRA... although it will be denied by her supporters

Personally, she wasnt. But her Government/security forces most certainly were.

Back in those grim days, most Army/Marine deployments into NI had regular if infrequent contact with the top bodies in the various paramilitary groups.