The Unholy Trinity

[Shipped]

Because they are permanent signings...

There is a multi-quote function and ive been told by mods in the past to use it...as apparently it clogs up threads otherwise.

If you find it rude then take it up with the mods...

As were Klaasen, Vlasic etc.
Mina and Bernard have been signed to a squad, their form and ability to adapt to the league will determine whether they become starters, squad options or get shipped out. If you're able to foresee the future with such confidence any chance you could share next weekend's lottery numbers?

If the Mods told you to multi-quote then fair enough but I'd suggest try to select quotes that are relevant to your reply.
You'll notice my post was not about whether the midfield 3 are good enough long term, all I said was they had decent games yesterday.

 

[Zatara]

The only issue with this post is that Veron did come off in one game... against us. He was like a magician with that ball and how he had the Everton players fall away. Very rarely have I ever seen a player school us like he did. I was mesmerised by him, as were our players.

Tricky problem our midfield. If it can gel under Silva's tactics, it will need time. Or a better player or 2. No easy fixes there then. But they're not helped out by the defence requiring constant vigilance from them either.

Achh, who'd be an Evertonian after a loss hey?

I like that bernard, digne and richarlison seem like winners...theyre not soft qnd thst bodes well for the new central players we bring in.

Were definitely looking at a totally new way of playing football and i imagine silva is frustrated by the players who hes managing bar the ones hes signed.

A veron for us would transform the team.

 

[Lanolin]

...you said, ’midfield has been a problem for a while, as has defence’ but the forward line has hardly been great either.

I know it’s understandable that there’s a knee jerk reaction after a defeat, but it would be more analytical if these strategic problems were highlighted after a win. I agree with you last paragraph.

I completely agree, but if you try that you get shouted down as being negative. I've highlighted issues with Tosun and Holgate for ages that people have taken issue with, and now suddenly after a defeat everyone agrees.

It's very polar for many fans - winning means everything is great, losing means we're terrible, being over 23 means you're rubbish, being under 23 means you're likely to win the ballon d'or. It seems its very difficult for some fans to accept that criticising a player doesn't mean you hate them and think they're rubbish, and defending a players performance in a game doesn't mean you think we should build the team around them.

The midfield is certainly an issue, but it's more one of balance for me, it's way out to suggest that the players in question are individually poor, they just don't really work as a unit.

 

[Thomasc]

The amount of cryarse flouncing that goes on at GOT after a defeat is what really separates Evertonians from normal level headed people.

Chosen not manufacturered? Yeah right!

Always the same people as well.

Proper dicks.

 

[Saint Domingo]

The amount of cryarse flouncing that goes on at GOT after a defeat is what really separates Evertonians from normal level headed people.

Chosen not manufacturered? Yeah right!

Always the same people as well.

Proper dicks.

It’s not after 1 defeat though. I’ve provided stats that said in 17 games they’ve started together we’ve won only 4 and three of those games Schneiderlin went off early or with us in a losing position to be replaced by Davies. So our first choice midfield has won 1 game out of 17 when they’ve played together.

 

[Zatara]

I’ve just posted about Bernard playing in the 10role, but I also wonder if going forward silva/Brands are looking to play a 3 man midfield with no natural number 10.

Having one defensive midfielder and 2 either side, who both can go box to box and offer a threat in the final 3rd. Can’t think of to many names of the top of my head, but hopefully after the next 2 windows, we will start to see the shape and style the manager wants.

Its definitely going to be interesting to see how he wants us to play in the centre. He was quoted as saying he prefers 1 DM and to me if he plays that way then he would need either a Busquets type or a playmaker.

I'd favour us going for players like;

DM -- Neves who is allowed to roam.
CM - Zakaria (linked) at Gladbach who can cover Neves and is able to move forward as well + positionally he seems excellent (from the very little ive seen him) both defensively and moving into space to receive the ball. I think hes playing CM for his club but DM for Switzerland...
CM -- A real big unit as a box to box player like doucoure.

Similar players to those could give us the silk and the steel in the centre...

As were Klaasen, Vlasic etc.
Mina and Bernard have been signed to a squad, their form and ability to adapt to the league will determine whether they become starters, squad options or get shipped out. If you're able to foresee the future with such confidence any chance you could share next weekend's lottery numbers?

If the Mods told you to multi-quote then fair enough but I'd suggest try to select quotes that are relevant to your reply.
You'll notice my post was not about whether the midfield 3 are good enough long term, all I said was they had decent games yesterday.

Mina -- signed by Brands/Silva for £27mil+ with them focused on him prior to the world cup as their number 1 defensive target and watching with Moshiri and Kenwright against England...safe to say they see him as a regular fixture.

Bernard -- Could have moved to a number of clubs but chose Everton due to the manager and most likely sees a long term future as a starter. A well known player due to his international breakthrough and as evidenced yesterday has rare qualities.

Klaassen/Vlasic -- Not signed by the Manager nor the DOF so i'm unsure as to why they would be seen at any point as being favoured players...surely players signed by the management are considered more likely to be in their plans than those who were not brought im by them.

Hence them not being in the squad.

Not really sure why you cant see this...

What did you see in the midfield which was effective yesterday to class them as being decent? They were outplayed by Noble and Rice...

 

[degsy]

As i posted earlier, disagree about Sigurdsson.

The players listed arent going to push on in Silvas system.. at least imo.



I think Neville and Carragher were discussing this on MNF (which i saw on youtube).

Neville was saying the manager needs to choose his system and its up to the players to show they can be effective in it...if not = adios.

Carragher said the manager should adapt (as you believe).

I would prefer the manager to stick to his ethos and play his way...1 season of transition and enormous changes is worth it.

Or else why hire that manager...

The obvious answer to your, let the manager manage, given we also need results, wins, points.
Or is aiming to hit, eventually, Silva's Nirvana system ( like Roberto's philosophy, which was in effect...if it didn't work, keep adding more philosophy ad infinitum until it does...which it will because the philosophy is ALWAYS right) the be all and end all.
*Answers own question; No.
Points make prizes, said Brucie and he was right
Wins, points, performances;
Puts bums on seats
Everton on sky
Brass in pocket
Trophies in cabinets
Stadiums on Docks

Do the 'adapt bit' with the players you have, gradually doing away with the adapting as you get in the players you need...
If you can get them
If they do the biz

The aim is not to hit the most perfect version of your own personal fave system ever.
The aim should be to each week...on the day, put out the best performance you can

Mr. Silva, for various reasons, that didn't happen...don't let your stubbornness be one of those reasons.
Edit; If you cant do it mate well fair enough the results will see you off as time goes by, but ffs, give it a go

 

[Shipped]

Mina -- signed by Brands/Silva for £27mil+ with them focused on him prior to the world cup as their number 1 defensive target and watching with Moshiri and Kenwright against England...safe to say they see him as a regular fixture.

Bernard -- Could have moved to a number of clubs but chose Everton due to the manager and most likely sees a long term future as a starter. A well known player due to his international breakthrough and as evidenced yesterday has rare qualities.

Klaassen/Vlasic -- Not signed by the Manager nor the DOF so i'm unsure as to why they would be seen at any point as being favoured players...surely players signed by the management are considered more likely to be in their plans than those who were not brought im by them.

Hence them not being in the squad.

Not really sure why you cant see this...

What did you see in the midfield which was effective yesterday to class them as being decent? They were outplayed by Noble and Rice...

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here that you're not deliberately missing my point to be a bell.

Klaaseen was signed to be a starter (23 million). It didn't work out. He's gone.
Mina was signed to be a starter (27 million). Hopefully it works out. We'll see.

No one knows for sure though. I find your assumption that he's defo going to be boss and your re-arranging of our squad around him to be arrogant.
It's all good though, Zat gonna Zat and that's fine, it's when you start quoting at me in your twaddle that it becomes my business.

As for yesterday our midfield was definitely NOT outplayed by Noble and Rice. We had more possession, more touches of the ball and created more chances than West Ham.We lost the game as our defending and finishing was poor. You'd be able to see this if you thought about the game objectively rather than using the result as part of your agenda to carve up our squad in your head like you're playing a computer game.

 

[TheCount]

Playing two defensive midfielders at home is just pure coward. Moyes did it. Martinez did it. Koeman did it. Now Silva does it.

 

[Raino85]

This has been a problem and key weakness in the team for years.

Teams fine it easy to come through our midfield with passing and pace. The positioning seems non-existent at times...attack wise not a single centre midfielder has the nous to open up the opposition.

At the moment I'd say our 'permanent' team in the eyes of Brands and Silva looks like;

Pickford
??? -- ??? -- Mina -- Digne
???
??? -- ???
??? --Richarlison -- Bernard
​

As @Timak pointed out, there are 2 ways to set up the midfield in a 3.

A-- 1 DM to take the ball off the defence, great passer and able to perform as a 'deep playmaker' + 2 CMs who are very good all rounders.

B-- Similar to the RS, Gerrard,Mascherano,Alonso with 2 sitting back and one advanced.

Silva was quoted as saying he prefers to play with 1 DM.

The importance of the role is highlighted when looking at Neves for Wolves...take him out and they wont be the same team. Ferguson went for Veron at United for the role but it didnt work out...

I think we are still 6 starters away from being a very good side. The recruitment of the players this summer should give us optimism for top notch incomings.

Centre forward is a major concern but i think we need to focus on centre midfield. We simply have to sign 1 super midfielder in January to play the DM role...

I'd be going to Wolves with £60mil for Neves. He would totally change the scope of the team...otherwise i hope Brands and Silva have someone in mind.

Are you implying Neves goes deep and picks up the ball off the Wolves defence?

 

[mkrudden]

What I like most about this thread @Saint Domingo is that you created it after the game where

Tosun missed two glaring opportunities
Niasse missed a sitter
Pickford passed the ball to WH for their second goal
Holgate and Zouma were given the run-around

Yet you've skipped all those players to vent at and gone for 3 lads who had average to poor games, one of whom scored a great header, and made the most outrageously sensationalist remark in your posting history.

Never change my friend. Never change

 

[mkrudden]

Playing two defensive midfielders at home is just pure coward. Moyes did it. Martinez did it. Koeman did it. Now Silva does it.

We didn't for 50 mins mate. We played one with Gylfi off the leash.

And we got absolutely destroyed by Mark Noble and his merry gang.

 

[Yarrgh]

I like that bernard, digne and richarlison seem like winners...theyre not soft qnd thst bodes well for the new central players we bring in.

Were definitely looking at a totally new way of playing football and i imagine silva is frustrated by the players who hes managing bar the ones hes signed.

A veron for us would transform the team.

I actually think that we might need just one player to transform that team now too- and that player might even be at the club already with the likes of Richarlison and Bernard waiting to come in.

I see from a later post that you mention a few players like Neves and Doucoure as well. They'd certainly raise the standard a lot. Getting them in would be hellishly expensive though.

What I think we probably need is an Andy Gray or Peter Reid character. Streetwise, experience, a winner, some steel and quite a bit of skill underlying all that. I'd be thinking of looking at some more 'unglamorous' players, who can get the job done. N'Zogbia would have been the most high profile ones mentioned in the recent past. Doucoure could well grown into that type of player. Not that they're not glamorous of course!

 

[Sir Alan]

The amount of cryarse flouncing that goes on at GOT after a defeat is what really separates Evertonians from normal level headed people.

Chosen not manufacturered? Yeah right!

Always the same people as well.

Proper dicks.

#COYB

#BLUEFAMILY

#NOTHINGWILLBETHESAME

 

[Saint Domingo]

What I like most about this thread @Saint Domingo is that you created it after the game where

Tosun missed two glaring opportunities
Niasse missed a sitter
Pickford passed the ball to WH for their second goal
Holgate and Zouma were given the run-around

Yet you've skipped all those players to vent at and gone for 3 lads who had average to poor games, one of whom scored a great header, and made the most outrageously sensationalist remark in your posting history.

Never change my friend. Never change

Surely I’ve said worse than the Cleverley shout?

The difference is that all of the players you mentioned have performed well at times in the past. Pickford is in bad form but I believe is a good keeper. Niasse is what he is, an impact striker off the bench. Tosun played poorly but hasn’t been here long. Holgate is an academy player struggling, Zouma a new signing.

Gueye Schneiderlin Siggurdson are all international that are supposed to be in their prime age at the top of their game. This should be the area of the team that we are not worrying about as we have three high value players in there with prem experience. Instead it’s been an absolute disaster area the last season and the start of this.

I’ve shown everyone the stats. I’ve not yet seen a rebuttal of them. 4 wins in 17, 3 of them when Davies took over. So really one in 17 averages out at about 3 wins over a league season if we start every game with these 3. That’s relegation material.