the next level

[sandman]

After thinking of all the paper talk and comments on this site I came to the
conclusion that the statement made by David Moyes of going to the next level was ill timed now that kirkby is affecting the budget it now appears to me to be a dangerous statement obviously siad to indirectly inform the board he needs serious money to spend but how can we buy real qaulity when we need 4-6 players just to buy an average player its going to cost 6m so 4x6 wont take us to the next level but 3x7m payers will leave us short in numbers still I think we need 30m budget .Now that the statement has been made I will find myself pre judging the season befor a ball is kicked but if we buy
arshavin 12m engallar 6m bent 8 plus 2 stocking fillers and sell aj 8m also the
6m for mcfadden to spend . DO you feel as I do that the statement should not have been made just the action of it .NEVER tell the opposition what your
thinking .My Statement to the board would be
AS I GET OLDER I DONT LISTEN TO WHAT MEN SAY ONLY WHAT MEN DO

 

[Neiler]

Im ignoring all this lack of money stuff and kirkby linkage, because frankly i think its garbage!

I think this situation even if the ground is an issue on finace would have been well planned around, i mean how long has this saga been going on for! In fact i think the club is boxing clever, in terms of making the world think we dont have a pot to piss in, sound familiar in terms of transfer strategy.

I mean there hasnt been a credable source really just paper [Poor language removed] and people panicking. In fact the only credable source we do have is our manager, ceo, and chairman singing in harmoney about getting players to take us to the next level, and supporting the manager. But that hardly sells copy.

 

[coyney]

Im ignoring all this lack of money stuff and kirkby linkage, because frankly i think its garbage!

I think this situation even if the ground is an issue on finace would have been well planned around, i mean how long has this saga been going on for! In fact i think the club is boxing clever, in terms of making the world think we dont have a pot to piss in, sound familiar in terms of transfer strategy.

I mean there hasnt been a credable source really just paper [Poor language removed] and people panicking. In fact the only credable source we do have is our manager, ceo, and chairman singing in harmoney about getting players to take us to the next level, and supporting the manager. But that hardly sells copy.

I would be more convinced if Moyes had signed his contract and his second in command was in place sorry mate but I do lack faith in the guys running the club I lost that when the dock went I think Moyes is doing a great job but be honest if you where him you d be frustrated at the cash other clubs have to spend Moyes wants Fourth and any chance of that will take a lot of cash.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Well I think the board have been doing the right job in terms of acquiring and releasing funds. We are knocking on the door with a fairly modest budget. Moyes has developed a strong squad, albeit a little thin, its still strong. Out of our strongest eleven last season, how many of those players did we need to replace?

I would say one, and that's because he has dropped down a league (personally I think its because he wasn't good enough, but I'll go with the majority on this one).

Howard in goal, great.

Back 4, excellent. Even Hibbert started to perform well last season, and we had different options for all four positions.

Midfield, a fit Arteta, more from Peanuts, a fit Cahill + one superstar defensive midfielder, and maybe even Fernandes and I would be very happy.

Up front, who can ask more from the Yak? Scores goals, holds up the ball well, brings the rest of the team in. AJ in the wings who we know can do it, just needs to get his act together more often and take his chances. Plus we have young Vaughan who I believe to be a better option than AJ.

Then we can add in Gosling, Kissock and Rodwell. So really, regardless of numbers, how many players do we need?

Is Osman good enough? Played excellent last season. Is AJ good enough? has proven he can do it. What about in defence? Who do we drop?

So for me the board are going to look at the squad, and think ok we need numbers, but do we need to replace the players we have? Are those players capable of taking us up the next level? Do we just need that one general to do it? I would say yes, we need ONE man to bring the whole team to the next level. We don't need change on a wholesale level. We don't need to throw money at a situation, just because those around us are doing the same.

The same was said last season, we need to match the spending of Blackburn and Pompey. Why? We [Poor language removed] beat them in the league. End of.

 

[Neiler]

I would be more convinced if Moyes had signed his contract and his second in command was in place sorry mate but I do lack faith in the guys running the club I lost that when the dock went I think Moyes is doing a great job but be honest if you where him you d be frustrated at the cash other clubs have to spend Moyes wants Fourth and any chance of that will take a lot of cash.

Honestly mate i dont for a few reasons, the first being i dont think we are a kick in arse away from the top four with the payers we have. If you would have asked me would we have finished top four the summer we sold Rooney and signed Cahill and Bent i would have laghed in your face, remember that feeling after the first game at home to Arsenal, we got top four that season. Ill conceade the fact that, that is the exception rather then the rule, but a lot of our players are entering their prime and i think this team still has development in it.

For me the only reason we didnt get top four last season was down to luck, how many stone wall penalty decisons, disallowed goals and bad decisons went against i never remeber a season like it. To finish where we did was a remarkable feet given the injurys to key players at wrong times. I am not one of these that points to the numbers of our squad, persoanally i think the numbers are big enough, the problem was a viable alternative in the numbers, we couldnt turn to AVDM or Granveson to make a realistic contrbution, thus with the injuries and loss of key players, we struggled. All thats needed is an addition here and there i dont think it will take anything like the money alot of people are talking about, nor am i convinced its the right thing to do.

My second point is if you analyse Moyes's comments hes always talking of the foundations being right at the club, for me this signifies he has put a structure in place that he knows every intricate detail of whats going on from the youth team up, this has taken time, years even, to acheive this will have a huge bearing on him satying as i wont even mention him going because it simply wont happen, why work so hard on cleaning up a gigantic mess for just when things are going right to just walk away, and start form scratch somewhere else, he knows its not far away.

My next point is he has had his summers of scroungeing, on cut price deals for Cahill, Bent, Kilbane etc, he has slowly built up a squad and a team of quality and has watched them mature, its his team now but it took years to build why would he walk away when it just needs minor ajustments after suffering for so long.

And lastly i beleive he knows theirs a really good crop of youngsters coming thorugh some really special ones, i would class Vaghan, Rodwell and Baxter as special players and i see them as future full international with the ability to play at the highest level.

Like he says the foundations are right, there is quality in the team, their is quality coming through and the hard work is almost over, the squad needs three players four tops, and we will be to four. In fact i woudl be quietly confident of finishing top four based on the quality and cohesiveness of the squad we have with a rub of the green as i beleive we will see the [Poor language removed] and chelsea begin to decline next season.

Like i say mate, i dont think their is a chance in hell of him leaving, because he knows as i do that throwing money around and simply signing players isnt a recipe for sustainable success, hes proved it often enough. Personally i dont think for the reasons listed above we have to spend fortunes to get top four!

 

[GhostOfDixie]

totally agree with you there mate. 100%.

 

[Andriy.EFC]

We need Fernandes, one top class CM-slash-DM, a top winger, and a top striker.

 

[McBain]

Honestly mate i dont for a few reasons, the first being i dont think we are a kick in arse away from the top four with the payers we have. If you would have asked me would we have finished top four the summer we sold Rooney and signed Cahill and Bent i would have laghed in your face, remember that feeling after the first game at home to Arsenal, we got top four that season. Ill conceade the fact that, that is the exception rather then the rule, but a lot of our players are entering their prime and i think this team still has development in it.

For me the only reason we didnt get top four last season was down to luck, how many stone wall penalty decisons, disallowed goals and bad decisons went against i never remeber a season like it. To finish where we did was a remarkable feet given the injurys to key players at wrong times. I am not one of these that points to the numbers of our squad, persoanally i think the numbers are big enough, the problem was a viable alternative in the numbers, we couldnt turn to AVDM or Granveson to make a realistic contrbution, thus with the injuries and loss of key players, we struggled. All thats needed is an addition here and there i dont think it will take anything like the money alot of people are talking about, nor am i convinced its the right thing to do.

My second point is if you analyse Moyes's comments hes always talking of the foundations being right at the club, for me this signifies he has put a structure in place that he knows every intricate detail of whats going on from the youth team up, this has taken time, years even, to acheive this will have a huge bearing on him satying as i wont even mention him going because it simply wont happen, why work so hard on cleaning up a gigantic mess for just when things are going right to just walk away, and start form scratch somewhere else, he knows its not far away.

My next point is he has had his summers of scroungeing, on cut price deals for Cahill, Bent, Kilbane etc, he has slowly built up a squad and a team of quality and has watched them mature, its his team now but it took years to build why would he walk away when it just needs minor ajustments after suffering for so long.

And lastly i beleive he knows theirs a really good crop of youngsters coming thorugh some really special ones, i would class Vaghan, Rodwell and Baxter as special players and i see them as future full international with the ability to play at the highest level.

Like he says the foundations are right, there is quality in the team, their is quality coming through and the hard work is almost over, the squad needs three players four tops, and we will be to four. In fact i woudl be quietly confident of finishing top four based on the quality and cohesiveness of the squad we have with a rub of the green as i beleive we will see the [Poor language removed] and chelsea begin to decline next season.

Like i say mate, i dont think their is a chance in hell of him leaving, because he knows as i do that throwing money around and simply signing players isnt a recipe for sustainable success, hes proved it often enough. Personally i dont think for the reasons listed above we have to spend fortunes to get top four!

Im glad I took the time to read your post mate.

Very well said.

 

[Gazdalf]

Honestly mate i dont for a few reasons, the first being i dont think we are a kick in arse away from the top four with the payers we have. If you would have asked me would we have finished top four the summer we sold Rooney and signed Cahill and Bent i would have laghed in your face, remember that feeling after the first game at home to Arsenal, we got top four that season. Ill conceade the fact that, that is the exception rather then the rule, but a lot of our players are entering their prime and i think this team still has development in it.

For me the only reason we didnt get top four last season was down to luck, how many stone wall penalty decisons, disallowed goals and bad decisons went against i never remeber a season like it. To finish where we did was a remarkable feet given the injurys to key players at wrong times. I am not one of these that points to the numbers of our squad, persoanally i think the numbers are big enough, the problem was a viable alternative in the numbers, we couldnt turn to AVDM or Granveson to make a realistic contrbution, thus with the injuries and loss of key players, we struggled. All thats needed is an addition here and there i dont think it will take anything like the money alot of people are talking about, nor am i convinced its the right thing to do.

My second point is if you analyse Moyes's comments hes always talking of the foundations being right at the club, for me this signifies he has put a structure in place that he knows every intricate detail of whats going on from the youth team up, this has taken time, years even, to acheive this will have a huge bearing on him satying as i wont even mention him going because it simply wont happen, why work so hard on cleaning up a gigantic mess for just when things are going right to just walk away, and start form scratch somewhere else, he knows its not far away.

My next point is he has had his summers of scroungeing, on cut price deals for Cahill, Bent, Kilbane etc, he has slowly built up a squad and a team of quality and has watched them mature, its his team now but it took years to build why would he walk away when it just needs minor ajustments after suffering for so long.

And lastly i beleive he knows theirs a really good crop of youngsters coming thorugh some really special ones, i would class Vaghan, Rodwell and Baxter as special players and i see them as future full international with the ability to play at the highest level.

Like he says the foundations are right, there is quality in the team, their is quality coming through and the hard work is almost over, the squad needs three players four tops, and we will be to four. In fact i woudl be quietly confident of finishing top four based on the quality and cohesiveness of the squad we have with a rub of the green as i beleive we will see the [Poor language removed] and chelsea begin to decline next season.

Like i say mate, i dont think their is a chance in hell of him leaving, because he knows as i do that throwing money around and simply signing players isnt a recipe for sustainable success, hes proved it often enough. Personally i dont think for the reasons listed above we have to spend fortunes to get top four!

Well said that man. Great post, very heart felt and inspiring. Nice one Neiler

 

[coyney]

I honestly hope your right,but dont you think the lack of quality in the squad was also a reason we failed,No one argues that the team are heading in the right direction,but surly Moyes deserves some backing now in a higher quality player instead of him having to improve the players he buys Yes he has done a great job but he cant be expected to do it all the time .I also think this is not the communication between board and manager there should be as other wise why would Moyes make that statement of buying quality players before pre season while Kenwright says he cant give a amount for funds until Kirkby is sorted Dave ,should have been made aware of this

 

[sandman]

Neiler

Good post mate but I would challenge a couple of points made on this thread
that is there are a few reasons we never secured fourth spot firstly benethus
stopped using torres sparingly and started him every game in the second half of the season pushed the arse gerard further forward and got the best out of the headless chicken which surprised me
Secondly torres hit top form and for me he is the main reason we finished fifth with the help of a few bad refereeing decisions liverpool h blacburn A
Birmingham A to name a few and after the two cup runs we were tired and
also lost important players in the second half of the season at a crucial timewe made them sweat a bit and I for one think we can do it again also goingout the CL gave them one thing to concentrate on so with a stronger midfieldwe can improve the goal ratio
The more I sit and ponder artetas injury osman injury aj injury cahill injury
african call ups 5th seems amazing now

 

[TX Bill]

Neiler, trying for that "Best Post of the Year" award I see.

Well said.

 

[Neiler]

Neiler, trying for that "Best Post of the Year" award I see.

Well said.

Id settle for the most perspetive post of year mate!

 

[uknightbreed]

Well I think the board have been doing the right job in terms of acquiring and releasing funds.

i dont know , i just think the board have done a job , nothing more nothing less than whats expected of them in terms of transfer cash.


they sold rooney and paid for the summer transfers from that.
then gregg said he had investers and tried to get kenwright out unless he got some cash himself.he did , but it was only a loan linked to the rooney fee (amazing he got away with this imo).
then kenwright did get an invester whos best aquisistion is an ageing actor to promote his film at goodison.
then we spent well last summer. but that was linked to the increase in tv revenue (an extra 20 million) and was in line with the amount most prem clubs were spending.

also if the board are that good then how come we only seem to compete and win against third tier teams for transfers ?
ie boro portsmouth spurs newcastle all below us but have all beat us for targets in recent years.
we just dont compete transfers well enough against other clubs!

i think on the providing transfer money side kenwright and co have been adequate and the sorting things out side they have been mediocre.

why do you think moyes has won so many manager awards ?
its becouse he is doing a top job with poor resources ie the board are paupers/not up to the task.

also a lot of the credit for the financial sort out has to go to moyes himself and not the board.
we had an aging underacheiving squad on big contracts with little sell on potential.
he lowered the average age , got them acheiving (higher gates + higher winnings) , he reduced the squad (reduced wage bill) and bought well (value of assetts gone up). he may not have won anything yet but that doesnt mean he hasnt been amazing in sorting out this club.

if you give moyes the credit for all the things he has done then what credit is left for the board ?

i can honestly say with hand on my heart that there is only 2 successes which i give kenwright and co credit for. thats signing moyes and building finch farm the rest is .....well ......lets say dull.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

i dont know , i just think the board have done a job , nothing more nothing less than whats expected of them in terms of transfer cash.


they sold rooney and paid for the summer transfers from that.
then gregg said he had investers and tried to get kenwright out unless he got some cash himself.he did , but it was only a loan linked to the rooney fee (amazing he got away with this imo).
then kenwright did get an invester whos best aquisistion is an ageing actor to promote his film at goodison.
then we spent well last summer. but that was linked to the increase in tv revenue (an extra 20 million) and was in line with the amount most prem clubs were spending.

also if the board are that good then how come we only seem to compete and win against third tier teams for transfers ?
ie boro portsmouth spurs newcastle all below us but have all beat us for targets in recent years.
we just dont compete transfers well enough against other clubs!

i think on the providing transfer money side kenwright and co have been adequate and the sorting things out side they have been mediocre.

why do you think moyes has won so many manager awards ?
its becouse he is doing a top job with poor resources ie the board are paupers/not up to the task.

also a lot of the credit for the financial sort out has to go to moyes himself and not the board.
we had an aging underacheiving squad on big contracts with little sell on potential.
he lowered the average age , got them acheiving (higher gates + higher winnings) , he reduced the squad (reduced wage bill) and bought well (value of assetts gone up). he may not have won anything yet but that doesnt mean he hasnt been amazing in sorting out this club.

if you give moyes the credit for all the things he has done then what credit is left for the board ?

i can honestly say with hand on my heart that there is only 2 successes which i give kenwright and co credit for. thats signing moyes and building finch farm the rest is .....well ......lets say dull.

Well I was only referring to the funds situation. They have released enough funds to Moyes for him to get us to the verge of the top 4. Moyes knows the situation, and he knows that he had a tough budget to work with. Plus its all relative.

Sunderland needed £50m because their side was garbage, well it still is. United needed half of that because their side was already littered with talent.

Moyes has slowly been building the side up with a bit of cash here, a couple of deals there. Its just business, and anyone who has any experience in business knows that it takes time and investment is incremental. Now we are starting to achieve some success, we will start to see more funds being available.

I would rather the club be out of debt and successful, rather than be in debt and in the 3rd tier of the football league (Leeds).