Current Affairs The New Middle
- Thread starter dholliday
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magicjuan
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So many factors needed to form judgement, personal, contextual, experiential, legendary, While there are some stand alone 'socialistic' policies (wether actual or comparative), they do not indicate the new labour direction to appease business andbto further a corporatocracy.
PFI, the none repeal of draconian labour laws brought in under 18 years of tory rule, the chipping away at privatising the NHS, strange bedfellows for 'socialism'. Iraq. Foreign policy in general. Socialism? Ok.
Balance it out. What was achieved was easily eradicated because it was half hearted appeasement. That is why the whole period was a missed opportunity. Ultimately those that new labour got into bed with, traditional tory allies, were the ones that brought them down.
Hate the veiled racists that are the Alt-Right. There is nothing new or acceptable with their rhetoric. The oxygen they get is frightening.
You don't have to like all of what someone says to like them. I'm a fan of Jordan Peterson, but I certainly don't agree with everything he says. @magicjuan is one of my favourite posters on here, yet I disagree fundamentally with him on plenty of issues.
For me, it comes down to gauging intent, are people's beliefs coming from a place of sincerity and a genuine effort to be better? Or are their beliefs coming from enmity, bitterness or something else? You can always talk productively with the former, rarely with the latter, even if their opinions and preferred outcomes are the same
For me, it comes down to gauging intent, are people's beliefs coming from a place of sincerity and a genuine effort to be better? Or are their beliefs coming from enmity, bitterness or something else? You can always talk productively with the former, rarely with the latter, even if their opinions and preferred outcomes are the same
Charles Kirk and Candance Black are two I like to listen to every now and then when I get the chance.
Worth the time if you get the chance
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
A point I tried to make in an earlier post. Not as succinct though, and surely with less brevity
zzr45
#MURDERINGSCUM
What a terrible example. This is the problem - elements of the left see themselves as the paragons of truth and virtue. It’s done with such a snarl though.
The binman chronicles
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Surely that was the whole point of a third way government? It is an appeasement in effect to business and alike. I agree it is nothing like true socialism. However it was easy to see the reductions in waiting times and other indicators that the NHS was performing far better than previously (and better than it is now), social care was vastly improved, reductions in homelessness, a kick start to youth training and a general mobilisation of we are in it together instead of the individualism that is bred from a Tory governments.*
*of course unlike a true socialist government individuals go on to earn millions while some are left on the bread lines. But the feeling was there and it wasn't just in Tory households.
My point of view is I would much rather have a centre left government than a right wing one. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, a true socialist government is unlikely to happen or even if it did it wouldn't be in power for long to make that much of a difference. Labour should have walked the last election, perhaps the last two, but the drift to the left and now further to the left again is hindering the chances. If the Tories can find a half electable personality after they give May the hook then it could be three elections that the Labour could/should have won. If that is the case then I hope the lesson would have been learnt and that new moderate socialism is the way forward.
Similar to how many on the left will attack the person rather than address/challenge/discuss the content of what is being said.
magicjuan
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What drift to the left? You're being told every policy from.Labour is leftish, but the reality is those policies are a middle way, they are seen as left when.compared against the pseudo nazi ideals of allowing people to freeze to death on the streets while awarding yourself a hefty price rise and a makeover for palaces...
magicjuan
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Usually mirrored by the pompous arrogance of the 'right' gsrnished with condescension and patronising overtones.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
Agree with all that. Although the Iraq decision was so powerfully-wrong that it's enough to sway to the 'more harm than good' camp.
Domestically New Labour were fine.
@DanEFC92 you're the perfect poster boy for leftist tribalism x
So you're saying I'd support Hitler? You're doing a childish version of what Cathy Newman did to Jordan Peterson in that infamous interview.
Such cherry-picking! He's also had the Weinstein brothers on (not the movie guys...), Lindsay Shepherd (liberal teaching assistant), Some Black Guy (that's his actual monikor), Scott Adams (Dilbert creator), Richard Dawkins, Mike Shellenberger (environmentalist), Ayaan Hirsi Ali (intellectual), Yanis Varoufakis (that cool Greek who The Guardian fell in love with), Margaret Cho (woke comedian), Gad Saad (behavioural scientist from Lebanon), Laura Kipnis (feminist)...etc
He's asked many who identify as hard left on the show but they keep refusing...
Dan lad, honestly try thinking for yourself a bit. Often what you do in the current-affairs forum is post opinions from random Twitter users without any comment from yourself. It's as if I would just keep posting someone else's post from The Guardian's comment pages.
It's not a good look. Anyway, I had a click and this is the post you link:
Do you expect me to log on Twitter to debate with this guy or why did you post it? Try posting your own thoughts, mate.
Well that started well: "There's nothing that gets under the goat...under...under the...gets his goat..."
Is this the kind of high-quality content you like to watch? And again you're posting someone else's opinion instead of thinking for yourself.
The New Middle scene is all about thinking for yourself: don't limit yourself to what you think your tribe would think. As Prev said earlier, it goes for me too: I disagree with about half of what I hear, but I enjoy hearing the thought that goes into their arguments all the same. Important is we understand someone else's point-of-view even if we don't agree.
That's debate, and that's how society can culturally progress.
We disagree generally in this thread, but we're both on the same page on Iraq. A disgusting policy which is still causing problems (and costing lives) today.
Who are the veiled racists? Name names, mate...your contribution is too vague.
Sensible from the Prev as ever.
Torys and toryism, but without the kicking boots.
The binman chronicles
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Without climbing inside my head how can you possibly know if that statement is true? Comes across very condescending mate. I'm not telling what you are saying is wrong or where you get that information from. As you have written previously It's a complex myriad of reasons why someone takes the stance they do. I don't think everything that comes from Labour at the moment is pushing to the extremes, but there are a few ideas in there that are certainly further to the left since the days of Michael Foot.
Some of those ideas I agree with, but I also think they will be unpalatable to a lot of people who decade after decade vote in Tory governments.
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