Current Affairs The New Middle

[dholliday]

With much discussion polarised & poisoned by tribalistic agenda-driven sides with their unmoveable 'opinions', be that left/liberal or right/conservative, I've been verily heartened to discover a 'New Middle' beginning to dominate the debate: call it centrist or American Third Way...whatever you wanna call it it's proving vital for many disenchanted people who just want to better understand stuff and don't want to have to pick a side to do it.

I say American because whether we like it or not, USA sets the trend for the rest of Western discourse (outside of guns, that is...). I'd nominate Joe Rogan & Dave Rubin as the ones to watch: the range of guests they have on their shows, and the depth, clarity and balance they go into, puts TV to shame.

Just my cup of tea: tribalism is for sports, not politics. Are you also feeling the trend for this new middle-ground?

Here's Jordan Peterson breaking it down, basically saying the tribes need to talk to each other more:

 

[tsubaki]

Centrism has always and will always be a device where those on the right seek to split up everyone else.

 

[dholliday]

Centrism has always and will always be a device where those on the right seek to split up everyone else.

You're guilty of tribalism right there, tsu. And there's an easy counter to that anyway, for it's widely-accepted that identity politics is seeking to split everyone up (it's in the name even), and that comes from the Left.

The New Middle is a wild mix of people who differ on so many key subjects which normally define Left or Right: some are openly gay like Dave Rubin, some support use of psychedelics like Jordan Peterson, some support controversial Israeli policies like Ben Shapiro, while a Milo Y is fully behind Trump, and others like Joe Rogan support the Black Panther hype...

...this is a wild mix of typical Left & Right views, but they come together respectfully, sometimes disagreeing yet without attacking each other, they're there to debate and maybe come out a bit wiser at the end. Reminds me of classic debates from 70's TV interviews where there was no agenda to push and no rush to finish.

 

[tsubaki]

You're guilty of tribalism right there, tsu. And there's an easy counter to that anyway, for it's widely-accepted that identity politics is seeking to split everyone up (it's in the name even), and that comes from the Left.

The New Middle is a wild mix of people who differ on so many key subjects which normally define Left or Right: some are openly gay like Dave Rubin, some support use of psychedelics like Jordan Peterson, some support controversial Israeli policies like Ben Shapiro, while a Milo Y is fully behind Trump, and others like Joe Rogan support the Black Panther hype...

...this is a wild mix of typical Left & Right views, but they come together respectfully, sometimes disagreeing yet without attacking each other, they're there to debate and maybe come out a bit wiser at the end. Reminds me of classic debates from 70's TV interviews where there was no agenda to push and no rush to finish.

You would have been better off not mentioning Ben Shapiro and Milo, to be honest.

 

[dholliday]

You would have been better off not mentioning Ben Shapiro and Milo, to be honest.

Why's that?

 

[ilikecheese]

Funny how the left are always labeled with the identity politics thing when that is exactly the game the right play.

Won the Presidency, at least in part, by playing that card with white folks.

 

[tsubaki]

Why's that?

Well you could have argued that Rubin and Peterson represented some form of independent thought and kept the thread going for a while, but the moment you include Shapiro and Milo then the games up. Shapiro is basically a stereotype of every GOP politician of the last twenty years, and Milo is a Nazi (a gay Nazi admittedly, but a Nazi nonetheless).

 

[magicjuan]

You're guilty of tribalism right there, tsu. And there's an easy counter to that anyway, for it's widely-accepted that identity politics is seeking to split everyone up (it's in the name even), and that comes from the Left.

The New Middle is a wild mix of people who differ on so many key subjects which normally define Left or Right: some are openly gay like Dave Rubin, some support use of psychedelics like Jordan Peterson, some support controversial Israeli policies like Ben Shapiro, while a Milo Y is fully behind Trump, and others like Joe Rogan support the Black Panther hype...

...this is a wild mix of typical Left & Right views, but they come together respectfully, sometimes disagreeing yet without attacking each other, they're there to debate and maybe come out a bit wiser at the end. Reminds me of classic debates from 70's TV interviews where there was no agenda to push and no rush to finish.

And your response is tribalistic too. The last 40 years have created a split, there is no middle. It is, as the left say, them and us. Them can be any part of the political spectrum that wishes to maintain the system.

 

[dholliday]

Funny how the left are always labeled with the identity politics thing when that is exactly the game the right play.

Won the Presidency, at least in part, by playing that card with white folks.

Both sides are at it. The New Middle scene understands this. The tribalists only believe one side are at it.

Well you could have argued that Rubin and Peterson represented some form of independent thought and kept the thread going for a while, but the moment you include Shapiro and Milo then the games up. Shapiro is basically a stereotype of every GOP politician of the last twenty years, and Milo is a Nazi (a gay Nazi admittedly, but a Nazi nonetheless).

i.e. someone you don't like is (in your mind, even if he is married to a black man) a Nazi, hence any opinions or arguments he may have are automatically void. That is the tribalistic thinking the coming mainstream of the new middle are fighting against.

And your response is tribalistic too.

Which tribe?

The last 40 years have created a split, there is no middle. It is, as the left say, them and us. Them can be any part of the political spectrum that wishes to maintain the system.

I'm surprised you're a black & white thinker, Juan. There are nuances in everything. Any individual person can have some lefty views and some righty views, in fact most people do. It's more accurate to say there is no 'natural' Left or Right.

 

[electricblue]

Thought this was about Big Sam's belly for a second.

 

[ilikecheese]

Look at Holliday playing identity politics by labeling everyone tribalists.

For me extremists are not to be listened to on either end of the spectrum. There is no middle with extremists.

 

[dholliday]

For me extremists are not to be listened to on either end of the spectrum. There is no middle with extremists.

Which extremists are you referring to?

 

[dholliday]

For me extremists are not to be listened to on either end of the spectrum. There is no middle with extremists.

Anyway, you're essentially saying similar to my opener:

With much discussion polarised & poisoned by tribalistic agenda-driven sides with their unmoveable 'opinions', be that left/liberal or right/conservative, I've been verily heartened to discover a 'New Middle' beginning to dominate the debate

Except, unless they're truly hateful or crazy types, I wouldn't totally shut down extremist views. I probably won't agree with much extremist thinking, but then again things like prohibition of psychedelics or legalising gay marriages were once viewed as 'extremist' thinking, so you'd have to specifically define what you mean by 'extremist' before announcing you wouldn't listen to any of it.

 

[magicjuan]

Both sides are at it. The New Middle scene understands this. The tribalists only believe one side are at it.




i.e. someone you don't like is (in your mind, even if he is married to a black man) a Nazi, hence any opinions or arguments he may have are automatically void. That is the tribalistic thinking the coming mainstream of the new middle are fighting against.




Which tribe?




I'm surprised you're a black & white thinker, Juan. There are nuances in everything. Any individual person can have some lefty views and some righty views, in fact most people do. It's more accurate to say there is no 'natural' Left or Right.

Every basic element is tribalistic. Every human emotion has a base tribalistic history and the nuances as you say, disguise the fact that you either care about others regardless of reward or recognition or you don't. It really is that simple.
How information is fed to you and digested determines where about you sit between those poles.

 

[mezzrow]

With much discussion polarised & poisoned by tribalistic agenda-driven sides with their unmoveable 'opinions', be that left/liberal or right/conservative, I've been verily heartened to discover a 'New Middle' beginning to dominate the debate: call it centrist or American Third Way...whatever you wanna call it it's proving vital for many disenchanted people who just want to better understand stuff and don't want to have to pick a side to do it.

I say American because whether we like it or not, USA sets the trend for the rest of Western discourse (outside of guns, that is...). I'd nominate Joe Rogan & Dave Rubin as the ones to watch: the range of guests they have on their shows, and the depth, clarity and balance they go into, puts TV to shame.

Just my cup of tea: tribalism is for sports, not politics. Are you also feeling the trend for this new middle-ground?

Here's Jordan Peterson breaking it down, basically saying the tribes need to talk to each other more:

Stick and move, mate. The tribe will defend its domain in these environs. Best wishes. Good post.