Current Affairs The Make Brexit Great Party Ltd

[NilSatisOptimum]

The Japanese advocate 5 of those steps to truly understand things, and I'm not sure we're anywhere near that in terms of understanding the leave vote (from any of the parties), yet we still seem determined that Brexit is the answer without really understanding the problem. As a natural remainer, yes, it saddens me that none of the parties advocating for remain have really done that.

The aftermath of banking crisis and people in the UK and their state are less well off as a result financial pain brings populism (Brexit) always has done always will. And the trouble is many in remain are advocates of the amoral system that brought the banks to their knees which is causing the subsequent pain.

 

[Kev The Rat]

A rod has been created as the public have clearly shown a preference for politicians who are as ambiguous as possible so that they can project whatever values they have onto them. We see this with Brexit, with so many divergent types of Brexit wanted by leave voters, and all of whom are convinced that their form of Brexit is the one that whichever politician champions Brexit is really angling for. We see it with Labour whose official policy over the past few years seems to be to be as ambiguous as possible on the key issue of the day, and of course whatever political entities angling for the Remain vote being similarly non-committal.

It's an issue that will take some time to put back in the bottle (if ever), as we're in a social media world where schmucks like you and I on here think we know as much, and that our views are equivalent to people who really do know this stuff. It's become a breeding ground for division and misinformation that has undermined democracy as the very nature of these platforms seeks to divide people into partisan buckets to better sell advertising to, and these buckets are fed content they want from people they approve of. Just as the Arab Spring showed the power of this unifying force to change things, it's now that we see the flip side of this ability to 'target' and partition people.

Utter nonsense. The vast majority of leave voters prefer a wto brexit over any other. The ambiguity shown by the likes of Corbyn and May is being put to the sword at the polls.

 

[orchard]

Utter nonsense. The vast majority of leave voters prefer a wto brexit over any other. The ambiguity shown by the likes of Corbyn and May is being put to the sword at the polls.

The thirty-ish percent of the population? The ones who are quite happy falling/running for the same empty slogans and rhetoric again, still with no actual practical substance as to how we proceed and what we want to do with the Nation after a wto brexit?

 

[peteblue]

Pete, you're voting for someone with no manifesto, no policies, and who actively gets angry when even asked what his policies are. He just wants you to trust him, yet also gets angry when all of the many examples of his past statements are presented to him that either contradict his current position or reveal his general awfulness as a human being. THAT is the person you're willing to chuck your lifetime of Tory voting on the bonfire for, and you wonder why Brexiters are labeled as racists?

Oh, and in case @abelard wishes to wade in with "you're just like that with Brexit is Bollocks man", I don't plan on voting for either the Lib Dems or CHUK as neither are any better. It's possible to be appalled by the lurch to the extremes across Britain without by default throwing your weight behind whatever motley crew happen to stake out the centre ground.

Manifesto’s...just like the ones we voted on in the GE where both Tory and Labour said that we would leave the EU at the end of March, where individual MP’s absolutely promised their electorate that they would carry out their wishes, (like Yvette Cooper who told her 70% Leave constituents that she would carry out their wishes and then spent over two years doing the exact opposite). It seems that a manifesto has little credibility anymore. No one will believe anything said by the current crop of MP’s other than those still fighting for the U.K. to leave.

We may not know what policies the Brexit Party would follow but we do know that they would take us out of the EU, just as we voted for....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Manifesto’s...just like the ones we voted on in the GE where both Tory and Labour said that we would leave the EU at the end of March, where individual MP’s absolutely promised their electorate that they would carry out their wishes, (like Yvette Cooper who told her 70% Leave constituents that she would carry out their wishes and then spent over two years doing the exact opposite). It seems that a manifesto has little credibility anymore. No one will believe anything said by the current crop of MP’s other than those still fighting for the U.K. to leave.

We may not know what policies the Brexit Party would follow but we do know that they would take us out of the EU, just as we voted for....

As shown on Marr at the weekend, Farage himself has flip flopped on a whole bunch of Brexit-related statements, so why is he acceptable (and believable) in a way the others are not?

 

[peteblue]

As I've said elsewhere though, if you look at the root cause of things, you may get a very different picture than the one we have.

I want to leave the EU. Why?
I think we have too many migrants. Why?
They undercut local wages/put pressure on local services/dilute British culture. Why?
??

The Japanese advocate 5 of those steps to truly understand things, and I'm not sure we're anywhere near that in terms of understanding the leave vote (from any of the parties), yet we still seem determined that Brexit is the answer without really understanding the problem. As a natural remainer, yes, it saddens me that none of the parties advocating for remain have really done that.

Here you go Bruce.....

I want to leave the Eu

Why ?, because I do not like being run by Brussels

Why ?, because I cannot change the people running the EU

Why ?, because I have no direct vote as to whom will be in charge

Why ?, because it is a stitch up with a Spitzenkandidat nominated by a European political groupings yet not agreed by the U.K.

Why ?, because the UK’s view that the current EU President was not fit for purpose was overridden by Germany

Why ?, because he would continue the work of ‘ever closer union’

Why ?, because that is what Germany and France want

Why ?, because both see national benefits in having a captured market for manufactured goods and agriculture and wish to see a United States of Europe

What is wrong with that ? My vote cannot stop it......

 

[Kev The Rat]

The thirty-ish percent of the population? The ones who are quite happy falling/running for the same empty slogans and rhetoric again, still with no actual practical substance as to how we proceed and what we want to do with the Nation after a wto brexit?

I think it’s remainers who need to come up with excuses as to why they are going to get hammered at the EU polls, and why there is a reasonable chance that Farage ends up with the largest share of the popular vote at the next GE.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Here you go Bruce.....

I want to leave the Eu

Why ?, because I do not like being run by Brussels

Why ?, because I cannot change the people running the EU

Why ?, because I have no direct vote as to whom will be in charge

Why ?, because it is a stitch up with a Spitzenkandidat nominated by a European political groupings yet not agreed by the U.K.

Why ?, because the UK’s view that the current EU President was not fit for purpose was overridden by Germany

Why ?, because he would continue the work of ‘ever closer union’

Why ?, because that is what Germany and France want

Why ?, because both see national benefits in having a captured market for manufactured goods and agriculture and wish to see a United States of Europe

What is wrong with that ? My vote cannot stop it......

That's a start, thanks Pete. What do you think would be the answers for the other 17 million or so?

 

[peteblue]

As shown on Marr at the weekend, Farage himself has flip flopped on a whole bunch of Brexit-related statements, so why is he acceptable (and believable) in a way the others are not?

Because he stood down when the Leave vote was won. He does not seek to be PM or even hold political office, he does not appear to be in it ‘for himself’. I’m sure he could be as obnoxious as the rest, but he believes in leaving the EU. May doesn’t, Corbyn just wants to be PM and the rest just want anything that gives them more votes......

 

[peteblue]

That's a start, thanks Pete. What do you think would be the answers for the other 17 million or so?

Let’s try it another way.

Can you answer why you want to remain ? And ask seven or eight why’s.......

 

[Kev The Rat]

Interesting how many of the same arguments were posited in 75 as they are now.

 

[orchard]

I think it’s remainers who need to come up with excuses as to why they are going to get hammered at the EU polls, and why there is a reasonable chance that Farage ends up with the largest share of the popular vote at the next GE.

A too large a segment of the population are shallow, fickle exceptionalists who have had it so easy over the years that they've lost touch with reality and are easy prey when it comes to manipulation?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Let’s try it another way.

Can you answer why you want to remain ? And ask seven or eight why’s.......

Sure. I want to remain in the EU
- Because mankind works better when we cooperate (one among many reasons)
- Because diversity of ideas and perspectives allows us to innovate more effectively
- Because innovation is recombinative, ie it takes ideas that work in one field and applies them in another
- Because patent data shows us that, as does founder data for startups (a disproportionate number of which are migrants)

 

[Kev The Rat]

A too large a segment of the population are shallow, fickle exceptionalists who have had it so easy over the years that they've lost touch with reality and are easy prey when it comes to manipulation?

And that’s remainers issue to deal with. The rationale for the vote is in many ways irrelevant. It seems that complacency is remainers stock in trade.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Sure. I want to remain in the EU
- Because mankind works better when we cooperate (one among many reasons)
- Because diversity of ideas and perspectives allows us to innovate more effectively
- Because innovation is recombinative, ie it takes ideas that work in one field and applies them in another
- Because patent data shows us that, as does founder data for startups (a disproportionate number of which are migrants)

Unfortunately for you Bruce many leavers have voted on their own personal experience of the damage the EU has done to this country. Any attempts to dress it up in a positive light will be met with scorn by those voters.