Current Affairs The Labour Party

[michaelh1990]

With regards to the railways, has there been any [impartial] analysis of the railways now and under British Rail in terms of the number of train services and their punctuality, price of tickets, number of passengers and so on?

whenever a government needed money for something in the 60's and 70's they took it from BR so it was a poor service that fewer people used than they do today. properly funded it would be more efficient than the current system which just sees profit get creamed off and head back to germany or into the pockets of share holders and management. (i wont provide any evidence for this though)

 

[catcherintherye]

Saw some stuff about Dan Carden on here a few pages back. I know him a bit and he's a decent lad who will do a good job.

Some of the comments from Anderson are untrue. His old man was a Scouse docker and Dan has attended marches and strikes supporting scousers since he was a little lad.

 

[Armel]

On welfare, Labour says it would scrap benefit sanctions and the so-called "bedroom tax" and restore housing benefit for people aged under 21.

It would make me so proud to live in a country where a 16 year old could get knocked up, be given a house and get paid an unlimited amount all without contributing.

Meanwhile the company down the road that generates jobs and actually contributes to society would be punished. How dare they try to make money.

Not really respectful this and a bit lacking of empathy. Most of the time, the younger the mum the less support she receives from her social network; so any other support she gets is a huge plus for her and her future offspring so that he/she could make more rational choices.

 

[catcherintherye]

What does renationalising the railway do, is it to reduce prices, increase quality of service, provide new routes, increase infrastructure. Does it include track and signalling, stations and car parks, rolling stock and maintenance, upgrade of trains etc. Does anyone have a clue what that would cost, both in terms of capital expenditure and ongoing revenue, or do we just go with Abbot mathematics and make some numbers up......

There are definitely some things that you can pinpoint and say privatisation has worked, however the railways have been a bit of a disaster. We seem to have the most expensive, most unreliable and poor network in Western Europe.

I'm not sure if nationalisation would work but commuters are well hacked off with the current system.

I think it's like most things in Labours manifesto. All good measures people like, but there will be question marks as to how they will be paid for. I have my doubts people will vote for them.

I read somewhere that said in Scandanavia they expect good public services with high taxes. In america they expect poor public services with low taxes. In Britain we want good public services with low taxes. In the end something has to give!

 

[peteblue]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/draft_manifesto_110517.pdf is the link to the full manifesto btw, so hopefully people will read it rather than rely on the press to translate it.

Wonderful, Utopia by the sea. If it's all going to be so great why do we need an extra 10,000 policemen and women, 3,000 more prison officers and 1,000 more border officers.....

 

[peteblue]

There are definitely some things that you can pinpoint and say privatisation has worked, however the railways have been a bit of a disaster. We seem to have the most expensive, most unreliable and poor network in Western Europe.

I'm not sure if nationalisation would work but commuters are well hacked off with the current system.

I think it's like most things in Labours manifesto. All good measures people like, but there will be question marks as to how they will be paid for. I have my doubts people will vote for them.

I read somewhere that said in Scandanavia they expect good public services with high taxes. In america they expect poor public services with low taxes. In Britain we want good public services with low taxes. In the end something has to give!

The majority of people in the UK do not use the railway. Nationalising it just means that the majority, who do not use it, now have to pay for it. Whether prices or services go up or down, why should people be forced to pay for something they do not use ?.......

 

[The binman chronicles]

Wonderful, Utopia by the sea. If it's all going to be so great why do we need an extra 10,000 policemen and women, 3,000 more prison officers and 1,000 more border officers.....

That will be for the previously rich people when they break into council houses for the high end merchandise!

Glad the neg system has gone... phew!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

whenever a government needed money for something in the 60's and 70's they took it from BR so it was a poor service that fewer people used than they do today. properly funded it would be more efficient than the current system which just sees profit get creamed off and head back to germany or into the pockets of share holders and management. (i wont provide any evidence for this though)

You can perhaps appreciate the raised eyebrows though, especially as the usual stick used to beat the private sector is that they cream off profits and don't invest, which sounds like it was just what the government did prior to privatisation.

Wonderful, Utopia by the sea. If it's all going to be so great why do we need an extra 10,000 policemen and women, 3,000 more prison officers and 1,000 more border officers.....

I haven't finished reading it yet, but that is something that stands out. In the forecasting world, the best know to hedge their forecasts in terms of probability, as things are seldom certain in life, so it does cause concern whenever any political party say they will do something with absolute certainty, especially when doing that something requires a great many things to fall into place. They 'want' to do these things would perhaps be more honest than they 'will' do them.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There are definitely some things that you can pinpoint and say privatisation has worked, however the railways have been a bit of a disaster. We seem to have the most expensive, most unreliable and poor network in Western Europe.

I'm not sure if nationalisation would work but commuters are well hacked off with the current system.

I think it's like most things in Labours manifesto. All good measures people like, but there will be question marks as to how they will be paid for. I have my doubts people will vote for them.

I read somewhere that said in Scandanavia they expect good public services with high taxes. In america they expect poor public services with low taxes. In Britain we want good public services with low taxes. In the end something has to give!

I'd love the data for that if you've got it handy, and also how our current network/service compares with that under BR.

 

[peteblue]

We already in effect own the network, stations and car parks (and have done since Railtrack was wound up), and what they are proposing is taking back franchises as they expire, which costs nothing up front but which would involve the usual staff costs once they were taken over. In the one main case that happened so far (on the admittedly atypical East Coast mainline), it generated a billion pounds in payments to the Government over the space of five and a bit years.

All that would be left is the trains themselves, almost all of which are leased to the train companies by holding firms - these could either continue to be leased until they are life expired (which would probably reduce the cost, given that the firms have no-one else to lease them to) or just bought outright. Maintenance is currently divided between the owner (heavy maintenance) and the lessee (normal maintenance) at present.

So why don't we nationalise Airports and Planes, or Taxis, or car hire.....as I've posted most people do not use the railways so why should they have to pay for them.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I must say, I agree with the proposals around adult education, and the need to support people in re-training and learning new skills throughout their life rather than a big investment up to 16/18/21 and then nothing.

 

[peteblue]

With regards to the railways, has there been any [impartial] analysis of the railways now and under British Rail in terms of the number of train services and their punctuality, price of tickets, number of passengers and so on?

Haven't seen anything Bruce, more anecdotal than anything. My own memories of using British Rail were quite good, however I remember my wife and I being stuck at Crewe one Christmas because they decided to cancel all services to Liverpool after some arbitrary 5pm deadline.......

 

[peteblue]

I must say, I agree with the proposals around adult education, and the need to support people in re-training and learning new skills throughout their life rather than a big investment up to 16/18/21 and then nothing.

Indeed. However, once in the job market these costs for further education and training are picked up by companies, I imagine quite a few would be more than happy to stop paying and give it to the state....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Indeed. However, once in the job market these costs for further education and training are picked up by companies, I imagine quite a few would be more than happy to stop paying and give it to the state....

I think it would be more helpful for those outside of employment. The people whose jobs are lost to foreign competition or automation, for instance.

 

[peteblue]

I think it would be more helpful for those outside of employment. The people whose jobs are lost to foreign competition or automation, for instance.

I'm a great believer in whole life education and training and indeed undertook many specialist courses via the open university. Now there is a body that I'd like any government to throw money at.....