Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

Not entirely sure who the Labour Party are meant to appeal to these days me.

It seems, post Brexit, that swathes of their "Traditional" heartlands totally bewildered the Islington set by voting "Leave". They have managed to marginalise themselves in Scotland, which is no mean feat.

They really ought to get out of their VI Form debating society mode, which this neutral observer sees them as, and actually decide exactly what they now mean.

And endlessly parroting "The nasty Tories will destroy the NHS" just doesnt cut the mustard, cos most folk dont actually believe it.

Just my tuppence anyrate.

This is, in essence, what the post-2015 conflicts boil down to - a choice between (long overdue) necessary change and more of the same.

The sad thing for the party is that, despite two general elections, three leadership elections, a collapse in support in Scotland (and strong signs of one in the North and even in bits of Wales) and the defeat in the EU referendum demonstrating how out of touch they are, "more of the same" will fight to the death to prevent any meaningful change.

 

[dannyboy]

Not entirely sure who the Labour Party are meant to appeal to these days me.

It seems, post Brexit, that swathes of their "Traditional" heartlands totally bewildered the Islington set by voting "Leave". They have managed to marginalise themselves in Scotland, which is no mean feat.

They really ought to get out of their VI Form debating society mode, which this neutral observer sees them as, and actually decide exactly what they now mean.

And endlessly parroting "The nasty Tories will destroy the NHS" just doesnt cut the mustard, cos most folk dont actually believe it.

Just my tuppence anyrate.

You are exactly right in everything you say. Labour supporters like me just speak in echo chambers and it's a huge problem. Messages on the NHS and welfare just don't cut through.

We have a democracy in which 34% of the people living in it didn't feel inspired enough to vote at the last election. That's the people who Labour should be looking to engage with. Sadly nothing suggests that is happening any time soon.

 

[Mrk]

You are exactly right in everything you say. Labour supporters like me just speak in echo chambers and it's a huge problem. Messages on the NHS and welfare just don't cut through.

We have a democracy in which 34% of the people living in it didn't feel inspired enough to vote at the last election. That's the people who Labour should be looking to engage with. Sadly nothing suggests that is happening any time soon.

Not really - many of those people simply don't care about politics and will never vote regardless of how much lip service they are given. You've also got to keep in mind that not all of that group of people will be sympathetic to Labour policies, so ultimately Labour would waste time trying to convince a relatively small number of people to vote for them.

Labour need to start speaking to the millions of moderate people who do vote, rather than chasing people who couldn't care less about them.

 

[dannyboy]

Not really - many of those people simply don't care about politics and will never vote regardless of how much lip service they are given. You've also got to keep in mind that not all of that group of people will be sympathetic to Labour policies, so ultimately Labour would waste time trying to convince a relatively small number of people to vote for them.

Labour need to start speaking to the millions of moderate people who do vote, rather than chasing people who couldn't care less about them.

Maybe it's idealistic on my part but I just don't think you can dismiss a third of the electorate. These people don't vote because they don't think anything will change, give them reason to think otherwise.

It's ridiculous that labour have allowed themselves to be framed as a hard left party under Corbyn. Terrible strategy when they've put forward absolutely no ideas that can framed under that political spectrum. Actually, have they put forward any ideas at all come to think of it?

 

[roydo]

Not really - many of those people simply don't care about politics and will never vote regardless of how much lip service they are given. You've also got to keep in mind that not all of that group of people will be sympathetic to Labour policies, so ultimately Labour would waste time trying to convince a relatively small number of people to vote for them.

Labour need to start speaking to the millions of moderate people who do vote, rather than chasing people who couldn't care less about them.

But thats what Blair did. And the Labour party seem to hate him.

Dont get it myself. Not that I liked Blair, but the strategy was the right one.

 

[Mrk]

Maybe it's idealistic on my part but I just don't think you can dismiss a third of the electorate. These people don't vote because they don't think anything will change, give them reason to think otherwise.

It's ridiculous that labour have allowed themselves to be framed as a hard left party under Corbyn. Terrible strategy when they've put forward absolutely no ideas that can framed under that political spectrum. Actually, have they put forward any ideas at all come to think of it?

I'm not necessarily suggesting they should be dismissed, I just think actively targeting them is folly, as the likelihood is they will continue not to vote in big enough numbers to make any difference.

Labour's problems run much deeper than Corbyn to be fair to him - they've been steadily moving away from their core vote (which on many issues is quite conservative) for a long time. Unfortunately for Labour, Corbyn has just made the problem much worse.

 

[Mrk]

But thats what Blair did. And the Labour party seem to hate him.

Dont get it myself. Not that I liked Blair, but the strategy was the right one.

Exactly - he's the only Labour leader to win an election since 1974 so he must have done something right.

 

[1966efc]

Tories only 19 points ahead today. The fightback has begun!

YouGov/Times – CON 44, LAB 25, LDEM 10, UKIP 11
10 MAR 2017
YouGov’s latest voting intention figures for the Times are CON 44%, LAB 25%, LDEM 10%, UKIP 11%. The nineteen point Conservative lead is the largest YouGov have given them in government, the 44% share of support the largest since the coalition’s honeymoon back in 2010.

 

[degsy]

Exactly - he's the only Labour leader to win an election since 1974 so he must have done something right.

What he did right was not being John Major/Maggie/Tory at just the right time as a bit of a boom.

 

[jaycee]

What he did right was not being John Major/Maggie/Tory at just the right time as a bit of a boom.

Id say getting Murdoch onside played a massive part in his election

 

[orchard]

Id say getting Murdoch onside played a massive part in his election

All you need to know right there

 

[degsy]

Id say getting Murdoch onside played a massive part in his election

Murdoch's no dummy, he could see the lie of the land...Blair just fell into his lap/Murdoch just fell into Blair's lap - makes no difference really. The end result was the same

 

[tsubaki]

Id say getting Murdoch onside played a massive part in his election

... and this city, of all cities, should never forget that - given what may well have been given in exchange.

 

[magicjuan]

Exactly - he's the only Labour leader to win an election since 1974 so he must have done something right.

He sold out. It wasn't reform or progression, it was a coup d'etat that meant the party has had to recapture irs place in politics. To do that, and to have a base to work from, it has had to start at core values, seen as leftist these days regardless, and then move forward slowly due to the right leaning Blair types who aren't actually an alternative at all let alone viable, opposing Corbyn and de fact sabotaging the party to serve their own careerist ambitions.

The only hope for the party is proportional representation, unlikely under the Tories, but that brings greater democratic dangers via the legislation needed, especially under this government.

 

[tsubaki]

He sold out. It wasn't reform or progression, it was a coup d'etat that meant the party has had to recapture irs place in politics. To do that, and to have a base to work from, it has had to start at core values, seen as leftist these days regardless, and then move forward slowly due to the right leaning Blair types who aren't actually an alternative at all let alone viable, opposing Corbyn and de fact sabotaging the party to serve their own careerist ambitions.

The only hope for the party is proportional representation, unlikely under the Tories, but that brings greater democratic dangers via the legislation needed, especially under this government.

I agree with everything but your last bit. The "progressives" - Cameroons, Blairites / Progressites, "yellow book" Lib Dems and whatnot would all love - and have often proposed - PR because it would guarantee them jobs, solidify the centralization of the party and vastly increase their power.

The only hope for Labour is for the centre to cede control over candidate selection / imposition and instead focus on the local parties being locally relevant, open, honest and inclusive (ie: to prevent the sort of thing that wrecked the party in Scotland). If they sort the local parties out, they will get better candidates in, get better MPs in the PLP and gradually improve the quality of the leadership. Do that and they will have the mother of all advantages against a low membership, overwhelmingly donor-funded party like the Tories.