peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
It's got nothing to do with the 'message' and everything to do with what they do. Labour still haven't faced up or accepted why they lost the election in 2010......
Current Affairs The Labour Party
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It's got nothing to do with the 'message' and everything to do with what they do. Labour still haven't faced up or accepted why they lost the election in 2010......
Dont forget he also rumbled as soon as we he got into office we were still paying the USA repayments for alledged loan ships when World war 2 started he immediately negotiated stopping these payments!
Foot Long Hot Dog
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It's message is virtually non existent, to gain power it needs to appeal to a broader span than simply the working class anyway.
The current leader is never going to achieve that.
I agree with Pete, that it's failed to analyse the reasons it lost in the last 2 elections properly and then address the issues.
Labour appear to be suffering as politics has become slightly more complex, at least in terms of the ability of parties to more specifically target particular groups. If you think in terms of that well used political compass quadrant that placed you left/right on both economic and social factors, the Tories are going after those who are 'right' on both. UKIP (and to a large extent Trump, Le Pen, Wilders et al) are going after those who are left wing economically (protectionism, welfare state for nationals etc.) and right wing socially (immigrants are bad, tough on crime etc.), the Lib Dems seem to be plumping for those who are centre right economically, and left socially, which leaves Labour in a muddle.
Traditionally they would counter the Tories by being left/left on both measures, but many of their northern constituents aren't socially left at all, hence why UKIP and the populists have managed to gain ground in Labour strong-holds. Ostensibly I don't believe Labour are naturally that way inclined, but they're struggling to reconcile their previous position as the natural home for the left, with a new more marginalised power, as the right wing social values of many of their present/former voters have taken precedence and found a more natural home with UKIP, who pander to both their economic and social values.
I do wonder if we're not leaving the traditional era of single party dominated governments and entering one of more consortia led governments as is common throughout Europe.
Traditionally they would counter the Tories by being left/left on both measures, but many of their northern constituents aren't socially left at all, hence why UKIP and the populists have managed to gain ground in Labour strong-holds. Ostensibly I don't believe Labour are naturally that way inclined, but they're struggling to reconcile their previous position as the natural home for the left, with a new more marginalised power, as the right wing social values of many of their present/former voters have taken precedence and found a more natural home with UKIP, who pander to both their economic and social values.
I do wonder if we're not leaving the traditional era of single party dominated governments and entering one of more consortia led governments as is common throughout Europe.
I fear that we're going that way. The idea of a UKIP/Conservative coalition government sickens me.
From my own personal experience, I feel that the Labour Party has failed over the past 20 or so years to really understand the worries of the working class people of our country. As a life long activist for the party, it's difficult for me to admit - but it's true. However, I will not concede that UKIP are in anyway capable of answering these genuine issues long term and I still believe the Labour Party is the most able to do so.
Our public services aren't crumbing due to immigration. It's due to the bastards at the top, cutting away at our finances whilst giving their mates in the City huge tax-breaks.
This message does resonate with the working class, but we seem completely unable to put it across right now.
loads they could go on about, NHS, Tory u turn on taking peoples homes for care, and that's a concern for a growing age demographic that actually get out and vote, why are we borrowing even more as a country despite austerity that is supposed to be stopping this, rise in minimum hours contacts, the way the council grants have been dealt with, local pharmacy's and lots of others stuff they should be bringing the government to task over, but were are they?
Need to get it together and quickly or will turn into a protest group rather than an electable alternative, don't think there is anybody around with the right backing or vision to get to grips with it at the moment if at all sadly.
neil999
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We really need a resurgent lib dems
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
I would strongly question this belief that northern constituents aren't "socially left" - if anything the problem there comes from the Labour Party, between the aftermaths of 1983 and 2015, moving away from a traditional left position onto a more European style social democratic platform; to put it another way they felt abandoned by the Labour Party because they were abandoned by them.
Corbyn's election, and (possibly more importantly) the weakening of the centre that has resulted from that election, should slowly start to deal that sense of abandonment as the local CLPs seek to respond to local issues, are free to dissent from the centre where reasonable and necessary (as the Copeland CLP have done over nuclear power), and use credible, relevant candidates that have some local support for their elections. If the process isn't interrupted then the Labour Party will probably be in a far healthier position in three or four years, certainly when compared to the more centrally directed parties.
I agree with everything you said there, but the problem is that (from my experience) all the new members seem more focused on unilateral nuclear disarmament, the Israel/Palestine conflict and the media. Under Ed Miliband, I saw things beginning to improve - there was a new focus on local issues. Under Corbyn, it's swung too far back the other way.
tsubaki
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There are certainly more of a few of that sort, though as long as they understand that it is not those issues (well, apart from the media) that are going to get anywhere and still pitch in for the local issues then I don't really see the harm in them. Certainly there is less danger from that lot than there is with the Progress-types that have a lot of influence in some London CLPs, who have led Labour councils into some morally vile situations (Lewisham with that whole Renewal thing, Lambeth with Cressingham Gardens and various other developments) and who have form for trying to get rid of serving MPs.
1966efc
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[QUOTE="tsubaki, post: 5273830, member: 4185"]I would strongly question this belief that northern constituents aren't "socially left" - if anything the problem there comes from the Labour Party, between the aftermaths of 1983 and 2015, moving away from a traditional left position onto a more European style social democratic platform; to put it another way they felt abandoned by the Labour Party because they were abandoned by them.
Corbyn's election, and (possibly more importantly) the weakening of the centre that has resulted from that election, should slowly start to deal that sense of abandonment as the local CLPs seek to respond to local issues, are free to dissent from the centre where reasonable and necessary (as the Copeland CLP have done over nuclear power), and use credible, relevant candidates that have some local support for their elections. If the process isn't interrupted then the Labour Party will probably be in a far healthier position in three or four years, certainly when compared to the more centrally directed parties.[/QUOTE]
I'll put my hands up and freely admit I haven't seen analysis to this effect. The sheer diversity of northern constituencies suggests there is a mix of opinion on a whole range of issues including social matters dependent on the make up of the particular seat - in the same way that Hackney and Ruislip are likely to differ on a range of questions.
Labour lost four million votes in 1983 with a manifesto which most would say was, at the very least, adventurously leftist. As Labour moved towards the centre, it gained votes. While there are subtleties / nuances in any election, the lesson learned (and backed up by all bar three opinion polls since the last election) was to concentrate its efforts on maintaining a centrist position.
We'll see soon enough which approach bears the most fruit. Three years isn't too long to wait.
Corbyn's election, and (possibly more importantly) the weakening of the centre that has resulted from that election, should slowly start to deal that sense of abandonment as the local CLPs seek to respond to local issues, are free to dissent from the centre where reasonable and necessary (as the Copeland CLP have done over nuclear power), and use credible, relevant candidates that have some local support for their elections. If the process isn't interrupted then the Labour Party will probably be in a far healthier position in three or four years, certainly when compared to the more centrally directed parties.[/QUOTE]
I'll put my hands up and freely admit I haven't seen analysis to this effect. The sheer diversity of northern constituencies suggests there is a mix of opinion on a whole range of issues including social matters dependent on the make up of the particular seat - in the same way that Hackney and Ruislip are likely to differ on a range of questions.
Labour lost four million votes in 1983 with a manifesto which most would say was, at the very least, adventurously leftist. As Labour moved towards the centre, it gained votes. While there are subtleties / nuances in any election, the lesson learned (and backed up by all bar three opinion polls since the last election) was to concentrate its efforts on maintaining a centrist position.
We'll see soon enough which approach bears the most fruit. Three years isn't too long to wait.
Start by volleying Diane Abbott up the arse!
is the correct answer
How are you defining socially left?
Have a funny feeling that under Tim Farron that could be way off, he just doesn't come across as a strong enough leader IMO.
Also, I can't get past the fact that he looks like he should be at school.
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