Current Affairs The Labour Party

[dead_soft]

I just dont follow that at all.

I dont read a newspaper, other than the sport and the crossword. I glance at the BBC web site most mornings, and other than the covid briefings, dont watch any news on TV.

But I saw those photos of Starmer on here, most likely in this thread, and thought he looked a right divvie. I do hear the hourly news clips on Talksport, and he comes across as an empty vessel.

Like I said, its a shame, but what can you do?

Media seeps in to everywhere, whether on forums with people who have consumed the news, whether out and about or with friends, whether in what debates drive sport. Media's impact is not just the first hand consumption of it.

 

[peteblue]

It wuz Chelsea, it wuz the Media...it was everyone except the Labour Party. Until Labour understand why they lose they will never win, nor even be a decent opposition......

 

[Tubey]

The vaccine bounce is real and Johnson has capitalised fully on it. Starmer can't fight him on that ground so he's tried elsewhere to zero effect as coronavirus is the be all end all of the political landscape.

That said, while he's done something, it's actually worse than doing nothing, as the John Lewis stunt made him look like a right idiot.

It's too early to say Starmer should go, because when we come out of COVID the Tories will take a hiding when the reviews start and the economic damage of this and Brexit become self evident. But yes, he deserves most if not all the criticism he is getting.

For me, his mistake was not gutting the party of the Momentum morons. I understand the slow approach at first but to be still beholden to them to any extent now is a failure of leadership.

 

[roydo]

Media seeps in to everywhere, whether on forums with people who have consumed the news, whether out and about or with friends, whether in what debates drive sport. Media's impact is not just the first hand consumption of it.

Aye, probably right. Me being in this thread proves it I guess.

That said, I dont buy the "Cos of the media" line. Its an easy answer, and an easy blame game in my eyes. We have seen it on here today. One poster saying its all the Right Wing media, and another bemoaning that the Tories being plastered all over the papers for sleaze, and Labour will still lose.

Ergo, there could be other reasons. Perhaps finding those out would be a decent idea?

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[PaulPowersTash]

Has anyone thought of asking why Labour voters will be voting Tory? I mean, it may well be Starmer, but I wouldnt make the assumption myself.

You would think it would be obvious question surely?
I think it just comes down to a lack of trust with the Labour party and that's
saying something with what's been going on with the Tories for some time now.
They just can't seem to relate to the average person in the street at all.

 

[PaulPowersTash]

That seat would have been easy Tory last election if the Brexit party had not split the vote, (they polled 10K). So a labour win isn't on the cards short of pulling a magic candidate out of a hat and that hasn't happened.

Now is not the time for one's arse to drop, basically. If it's an absolute pummelling then yeah some serious questions need to be asked but losing the seat isn't any sort of litmus test for labour.

The same thing happened in Wigan. Without the Brexit Party Lisa Nandy would have only just scrapped home by less than a 1,000 votes. This is Wigan! It has been Labour since 1918 and she would have only just won it by a whisker.
I live in Wigan and the main reason for that vote was Brexit 100%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/E14001039

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Media seeps in to everywhere, whether on forums with people who have consumed the news, whether out and about or with friends, whether in what debates drive sport. Media's impact is not just the first hand consumption of it.

True enough only look at the response to the super league in our media, they trumpet the principles of free market in every other aspect of our lives, but they chose not to on football (for now). Had the media backed it the fixture list would have been issues by now. Had Everton been part of it half posts on it here.

 

[sbbefc]

Labour are going to struggle big time. Ignoring the infighting and the leadership issues, Labour will never garner enough support to form it's own government these days. Partly because the left of centre vote isn't a Labour monopoly (like the the right is for the tories) and partly down to the legacy of thatcherism. People have moved on (more people self employed etc) and there's lack of any real big industry employers. You see the likes of Wrexham voting tory now. Many people in these areas aren't particularly socially liberal either. It's a catch 22 as the current sift to the right will only alienate the Liberal side if the party.

 

[dead_soft]

Aye, probably right. Me being in this thread proves it I guess.

That said, I dont buy the "Cos of the media" line. Its an easy answer, and an easy blame game in my eyes. We have seen it on here today. One poster saying its all the Right Wing media, and another bemoaning that the Tories being plastered all over the papers for sleaze, and Labour will still lose.

Ergo, there could be other reasons. Perhaps finding those out would be a decent idea?

I don't think anyone in Labour thinks media is solely the issue but it is a major part of the issue. There's a reason Blair courted Murdoch so extremely and the courting is one of the reasons it has got so bad. I'm not sure it's been a case of 'well it's the media's fault so no point trying anything else' - it is very important to highlight have insidious and how much power parts of the media have though.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The vaccine bounce is real and Johnson has capitalised fully on it. Starmer can't fight him on that ground so he's tried elsewhere to zero effect as coronavirus is the be all end all of the political landscape.

That said, while he's done something, it's actually worse than doing nothing, as the John Lewis stunt made him look like a right idiot.

It's too early to say Starmer should go, because when we come out of COVID the Tories will take a hiding when the reviews start and the economic damage of this and Brexit become self evident. But yes, he deserves most if not all the criticism he is getting.

For me, his mistake was not gutting the party of the Momentum morons. I understand the slow approach at first but to be still beholden to them to any extent now is a failure of leadership.

Spot on

 

[dead_soft]

The vaccine bounce is real and Johnson has capitalised fully on it. Starmer can't fight him on that ground so he's tried elsewhere to zero effect as coronavirus is the be all end all of the political landscape.

That said, while he's done something, it's actually worse than doing nothing, as the John Lewis stunt made him look like a right idiot.

It's too early to say Starmer should go, because when we come out of COVID the Tories will take a hiding when the reviews start and the economic damage of this and Brexit become self evident. But yes, he deserves most if not all the criticism he is getting.

For me, his mistake was not gutting the party of the Momentum morons. I understand the slow approach at first but to be still beholden to them to any extent now is a failure of leadership.

Which Momentum morons would you have gutted specifically? Would you have included the ones who have given up their spare time throughout this election and previous elections to knock on doors over and over? Or who have been on Dialogue every chance they can?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

As the great Tony Blair said - you want a Prime Minister who has the courage to say no and not one who says yes to everything with no means of delivering on those promises.

Love Sir Keir me.

 

[Tubey]

Which Momentum morons would you have gutted specifically? Would you have included the ones who have given up their spare time throughout this election and previous elections to knock on doors over and over? Or who have been on Dialogue every chance they can?

In the PLP, the likes of Abbott, Osamor, Long-Bailey, Burgon, McDonnell, and further afield the more off-putting PLP members like Lammy and Dodds. Get rid of the ideologically ridiculous and the politically incompetent.

Basically he should have purged all these. Don't get me wrong, Corbyn should have done the same in reverse - it wouldn't have won him an election, in fact done the opposite, but it would have saved any excuses for him not doing so.

The membership you can't really do much about. They're going to be Corbynites no matter what, and it was only his drubbing that subdued them enough to get Starmer in. But for me this was the final chance for Labour to be of relevance again; to do so it needed a severe shift to competence to gain public trust. The reason Labour can't get a foothold is because of the damage of recent years, where the Tories can now do anything and the perception is "well, Labour would be worse."

Starmer, unfortunately, hasn't done anything to rectify that.

 

[Charro]

Ridiculous argument.

Some people need to be reminded of what the Labour Party is and who it should represent.

I’m not a fan of momentum myself, but to suggest a purge of some very good politicians who fight social justice more than most of the shadow cabinet is counter-productive.

Starmer has waged war with the left of the party and through that he’s completely destroyed a demographic of voters Corbyn helped solidify.

That’s fine, if you can get votes from elsewhere, but he hasn’t. There’s not one demographic of people that can be relied upon to vote Labour, whilst the tories pretty much have the right of the spectrum sewn up.

He’s been a disaster and it’s all his own doing.

It’s hard to see where Labour will go from here