Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Number_25]

People can’t (and don’t) usually get outraged by someone who isn’t themselves not getting a pay rise, but they are annoyed by unfairness and what this government has serially done with pensions (armed services ones especially) has been deeply unfair.

I think this was a major failing of the last Labour leadership, and it's strange to see it happen again.

There's a comprehensive lack of talent in the party at the moment, young working class MPs that rose to prominence in recent years have been pushed back and we're left with the party being ran for and by a middling managerial class. I'm of the belief that there's likely to be a leadership challenge in the coming months, which is obviously incredibly hard to see. I want a Labour Party that is fit for purpose, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that was the case right now.

 

[peteblue]

I think this was a major failing of the last Labour leadership, and it's strange to see it happen again.

There's a comprehensive lack of talent in the party at the moment, young working class MPs that rose to prominence in recent years have been pushed back and we're left with the party being ran for and by a middling managerial class. I'm of the belief that there's likely to be a leadership challenge in the coming months, which is obviously incredibly hard to see. I want a Labour Party that is fit for purpose, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that was the case right now.

The whole country needs an effective Labour Party and Opposition. Unfortunately I can’t see it happening for a while, and certainly not with this nondescript in charge......

 

[tsubaki]

I think this was a major failing of the last Labour leadership, and it's strange to see it happen again.

There's a comprehensive lack of talent in the party at the moment, young working class MPs that rose to prominence in recent years have been pushed back and we're left with the party being ran for and by a middling managerial class. I'm of the belief that there's likely to be a leadership challenge in the coming months, which is obviously incredibly hard to see. I want a Labour Party that is fit for purpose, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that was the case right now.

Absolutely - it was profoundly annoying to see Corbyn (and Miliband) do nothing over what they did to pensions specifically - it was the mother of all open goals for an opposition; they’d even been sacking people on detachment in Afghanistan solely in order to prevent them getting a full pension after 20+ years serving the country, days / weeks before it became due. (edit). The government should have been flayed alive for even trying to do it.

For firefighters, it was even worse as not only was the premise absurd (they were tearing up previously agreed pensions and then making them work longer, in that job, to get a worse pension) and, it turns out, was illegal.

It (Labour’s inaction) only happened because no one could be arsed to talk to military (and emergency services) people and find out what was happening. If they’d done that, not only would that have come out but also loads of other things - the housing scam, the way in which some people were being treated etc ... but neither leadership CBA.

Now this one just wants to wave a fkin flag instead. It’s enough to make one weep.

 

[davek]

Hardly ever see anyone from the LP front bench taking the lead in the media on the big issues. Starmer is a micro-managing control freak...which is not an altogether bad tactic if you possess a great personality or astute mind for political positioning...but this feller's a drone with all the political instincts of Forrest Gump.

Allowed the Tories to run up a 7 point lead after they committed a holocaust against the British people. One of the the biggest political failures in this country's history.

Gone in 6 to 12 months. A stain on the page of history.

 

[orchard]

Hardly ever see anyone from the LP front bench taking the lead in the media on the big issues. Starmer is a micro-managing control freak...which is not an altogether bad tactic if you possess a great personality or astute mind for political positioning...but this feller's a drone with all the political instincts of Forrest Gump.

Allowed the Tories to run up a 7 point lead after they committed a holocaust against the British people. One of the the biggest political failures in this country's history.

Gone in 6 to 12 months. A stain on the page of history.

Wouldn't mind seeing one of them fancy chart things illustrating who they've lost, to where, and who they've gained and from where. Not many riled up Sun readers seem to be driving their vans towards this flag waving 'patriot'.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

I think this was a major failing of the last Labour leadership, and it's strange to see it happen again.

There's a comprehensive lack of talent in the party at the moment, young working class MPs that rose to prominence in recent years have been pushed back and we're left with the party being ran for and by a middling managerial class. I'm of the belief that there's likely to be a leadership challenge in the coming months, which is obviously incredibly hard to see. I want a Labour Party that is fit for purpose, but we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that was the case right now.

Get off the twitters mate - it will turn your mind to mush. Belief in a Leadership challenge lol.

I mean I can easily believe people will be saying that, but you have to appreciate that SKS is all the left has left to talk about. They have literally nothing to say that anyone wants to hear after the electorate took a [Poor language removed] from 300 000 feet all over Corbyn's labour party.

163 seats in the [Poor language removed] cellar so of course an immediate leadership challenge to the doubleplus ungood wrongthink of Keir Starmer is the order of the day. I mean what could be more pressing as a priority?

 

[davek]

Wouldn't mind seeing one of them fancy chart things illustrating who they've lost, to where, and who they've gained and from where. Not many riled up Sun readers seem to be driving their vans towards this flag waving 'patriot'.

He's being advised by the New Labour old guard. But whereas New Labour back in the 90s had that feel good Cool Britannia thing they latched onto, Starmer completely misses the progressive nature of that and instead drapes himself in the butcher's apron and allies himself with 'Red Wall' cultural fascists, thereby alientaing himself from the mass of people who actually become Labour members and who support Labour at the polls.

The truth of the matter is that he's not very clever. Not really. A clever idiot, maybe.

 

[dannyboy]

Can just imagine the upcoming interviews now. Not supporting strike action, not putting a figure on the increase he would like to see. Just empty, evasive answers from a leader who has completely lost his way.

 

[dannyboy]

He's being advised by the New Labour old guard. But whereas New Labour back in the 90s had that feel good Cool Britannia thing they latched onto, Starmer completely misses the progressive nature of that and instead drapes himself in the butcher's apron and allies himself with 'Red Wall' cultural fascists, thereby alientaing himself from the mass of people who actually become Labour members and who support Labour at the polls.

I think the biggest problem right now is how he doesn't seem to have any principles of his own. All of his positions seem to be built around what he thinks people want to hear. Consequently he comes across as insincere and totally lacking in any original ideas.

Blair had a vision Corbyn had a vision, Johnson has a vision... Right now, what does Starmer want? Nobody knows. It's impossible to get enthusiastic about something you can't define. Good luck trying to get people on the doorsteps to sell it.

 

[davek]

Get off the twitters mate - it will turn your mind to mush. Belief in a Leadership challenge lol.

I mean I can easily believe people will be saying that, but you have to appreciate that SKS is all the left has left to talk about. They have literally nothing to say that anyone wants to hear after the electorate took a [Poor language removed] from 300 000 feet all over Corbyn's labour party.

163 seats in the [Poor language removed] cellar so of course an immediate leadership challenge to the doubleplus ungood wrongthink of Keir Starmer is the order of the day. I mean what could be more pressing as a priority?

That's a clueless analysis, tbf.

I suggest if you think the left and their policies dont resonate with the British people you go and look at where poll after poll locates their attitude on a whole host of issues.

The last election was about Brexit...Starmer's policy prevailed in that election and he and that lost the LP droves of support.

The election prior to that saw Corbyn's left of centre policies drag the LP back from the oblivion that Brown and Miliband drove them to.

 

[davek]

I think the biggest problem right now is how he doesn't seem to have any principles of his own. All of his positions seem to be built around what he thinks people want to hear. Consequently he comes across as insincere and totally lacking in any original ideas.

Blair had a vision Corbyn had a vision, Johnson has a vision... Right now, what does Starmer want? Nobody knows. It's impossible to get enthusiastic about something you can't define. Good luck trying to get people on the doorsteps to sell it.

Spot on.

He wants the LP to come across as nicer than the Tories. That's about it. The reason he wont spell out in detail what Labour stand for under him (and what he'd take them into the next election fighting on) is not because he wants to stop the Tories attacking them on policy, but because there would be an exodus out of the LP and possibly a new organisation to its left formed.

Starmer is courting big corporations and big media. The LP will be to the right of New Labour under him. Even the Blairites had their trickle down Third Way philosophy; Starmer wont even bother with that. It will be a naked capitalist party.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Can just imagine the upcoming interviews now. Not supporting strike action, not putting a figure on the increase he would like to see. Just empty, evasive answers from a leader who has completely lost his way.

Should be easy for Starmer to manage, put it to an independent pay review panel await their findings and evidence and act accordingly. 12.5% is a bit of stretch in my opinion.

 

[Blues Harp]

Absolutely - it was profoundly annoying to see Corbyn (and Miliband) do nothing over what they did to pensions specifically - it was the mother of all open goals for an opposition; they’d even been sacking people on detachment in Afghanistan solely in order to prevent them getting a full pension after 20+ years serving the country, days / weeks before it became due. (edit). The government should have been flayed alive for even trying to do it.

For firefighters, it was even worse as not only was the premise absurd (they were tearing up previously agreed pensions and then making them work longer, in that job, to get a worse pension) and, it turns out, was illegal.

It (Labour’s inaction) only happened because no one could be arsed to talk to military (and emergency services) people and find out what was happening. If they’d done that, not only would that have come out but also loads of other things - the housing scam, the way in which some people were being treated etc ... but neither leadership CBA.

Now this one just wants to wave a fkin flag instead. It’s enough to make one weep.

So now not only do we have a lying corrupt charlatan as pm, in addition we have a policy-lite, tory poodle as "leader" of the opposition.
And a dumbed down electorate who couldn't care less anyway.
What a time to be alive!

 

[Black Belt Jones]

That's a clueless analysis, tbf.

I suggest if you think the left and their policies dont resonate with the British people you go and look at where poll after poll locates their attitude on a whole host of issues.

The last election was about Brexit...Starmer's policy prevailed in that election and he and that lost the LP droves of support.

The election prior to that saw Corbyn's left of centre policies drag the LP back from the oblivion that Brown and Miliband drove them to.

Polls = winning the passing
Elections = winning the match

Facts are that election after election has unequivocally located their attitude on a whole host of issues and it isn't on the left.

Solving that disconnect (people expressing enthusiasm for left wing ideas and then taking a giant shabite all over them at the ballot box) is brutal hard, and interesting to hear people talk about on here. Even you, on the odd occasion when you put down your anti Starmer comfort blanket.

 

[davek]

Polls = winning the passing
Elections = winning the match

Facts are that election after election has unequivocally located their attitude on a whole host of issues and it isn't on the left.

Solving that disconnect (people expressing enthusiasm for left wing ideas and then taking a giant shabite all over them at the ballot box) is brutal hard, and interesting to hear people talk about on here. Even you, on the odd occasion when you put down your anti Starmer comfort blanket.

I'll tell you why cut through hasn't been achieved in elections: no one thinks the LP is authentic. Even under Corbyn enough people who would benefit from their policies back in 2017 still believed they would, in office, be like New Labour and thought "what's the point?".

I'm of the opinion that the LP are done and dusted as a progressive force. The best way forward is for socialists to withdraw from it and let the left unions fund an alternative. Leave the LP to wither away like the Liberal's did early in the 20th century.