Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Blues Harp]

This is only a trap because people have been conned (over decades) into approaching every debate over inequality like dogs in a kennel fighting because one of them might have got more leftovers than the others.

You are right, look at @ForeverBlue92 s reaction here - its completely mindless.

Health workers, and especially care workers, have been shat on by successive regimes - massive amounts of debt, zero hours (for some care workers they dont even get paid travelling between jobs), a lack of PPE and pressure to work even if they are sick. You'd have thought the people who did that to them would be to blame, but no its Labour because they recognize the fact (and its 100% a fact) that statistically black and asian British citizens are more at risk of dying from this than white British citizens are. Not that they are going to treat people different - just that they recognize reality.

Its mindless and, to paraphrase @davek, the response of a peasant.

Scummy tories dont give a toss about the lower paid, disabled, homeless, zero hours workers, ...its about time Sturmer and his cadre of red tories started doing so.

 

[davek]

Haven’t seen it, what happened...

The left did better than expected under new rules brought in under the Torturers friend's leadership for NEC elections. A slate of candidates from Grassroots Voice picked up 5 local party section of the NEC plus the youth and disabled rights positions.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

This is only a trap because people have been conned (over decades) into approaching every debate over inequality like dogs in a kennel fighting because one of them might have got more leftovers than the others.

You are right, look at @ForeverBlue92 s reaction here - its completely mindless.

Health workers, and especially care workers, have been shat on by successive regimes - massive amounts of debt, zero hours (for some care workers they dont even get paid travelling between jobs), a lack of PPE and pressure to work even if they are sick. You'd have thought the people who did that to them would be to blame, but no its Labour because they recognize the fact (and its 100% a fact) that statistically black and asian British citizens are more at risk of dying from this than white British citizens are. Not that they are going to treat people different - just that they recognize reality.

Its mindless and, to paraphrase @davek, the response of a peasant.

Problem is Labour couldn't give a toss about the working class folk in the North.

They have taken the white working class vote for granted for 2 elections now and lost both as they try chase southern middle class & BAME votes (largely down to the ideology of said Southern upper middle class politicians who dominate the Labour Party these days).

Politics is a popularity contest - appeal to the majority and you'll win yet Labour and the left in general have taken the majority in the UK for granted/contempt and wonder how snake oil salesmen like Farage and Johnson then Hoover them votes up by saying "I listen to you".

Im all for Labour doing all it can for the working classes regardless of colour - but the party has become a farce these days like Starmer taking the knee during the BLM protests in the middle of a pandemic - its constant shooting yourself in the foot and disenfranching everyone else.

 

[tsubaki]

Problem is Labour couldn't give a toss about the working class folk in the North.

They have taken the white working class vote for granted for 2 elections now and lost both as they try chase southern middle class & BAME votes (largely down to the ideology of said Southern upper middle class politicians who dominate the Labour Party these days).

Politics is a popularity contest - appeal to the majority and you'll win yet Labour and the left in general have taken the majority in the UK for granted/contempt and wonder how snake oil salesmen like Farage and Johnson then Hoover them votes up by saying "I listen to you".

Im all for Labour doing all it can for the working classes regardless of colour - but the party has become a farce these days like Starmer taking the knee during the BLM protests in the middle of a pandemic - its constant shooting yourself in the foot and disenfranching everyone else.

like I said, this is a peasant mentality and its been encouraged for years

 

[ForeverBlue92]

like I said, this is a peasant mentality and its been encouraged for years

Thats the problem with a two party system - if you aint Tory then you have to be Labour but Miliband, Corbyn & Starmer didnt/doesn't represent me or many others in the UK and thats the problem.

In an ideal world Labour would split into two and we can let the middle class talking heads go elsewhere whilst they take the knee and chase Southern/populist liberal votes whilst a proper working class leader takes our party forward and fights against inequality for all.

 

[Blues Harp]

Thats the problem with a two party system - if you aint Tory then you have to be Labour but Miliband, Corbyn & Starmer didnt/doesn't represent me or many others in the UK and thats the problem.

In an ideal world Labour would split into two and we can let the middle class talking heads go elsewhere whilst they take the knee and chase Southern/populist liberal votes whilst a proper working class leader takes our party forward and fights against inequality for all.

What "proper working class leader" would you propose...?
In an ideal world the tory scum would be fired into the sun...IMO

 

[ForeverBlue92]

What "proper working class leader" would you propose...?
In an ideal world the tory scum would be fired into the sun...IMO

Give it Andy Burnham!!

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The left won bigly in todays NEC elections.

Just need Unison to go with a left leader in their election and the torturer's friend is in a very poor position.

First past the post unison, and left vote split, I went far left out of the Labour...

 

[tsubaki]

Thats the problem with a two party system - if you aint Tory then you have to be Labour but Miliband, Corbyn & Starmer didnt/doesn't represent me or many others in the UK and thats the problem.

In an ideal world Labour would split into two and we can let the middle class talking heads go elsewhere whilst they take the knee and chase Southern/populist liberal votes whilst a proper working class leader takes our party forward and fights against inequality for all.

No, it isn't.

People have been told for years that these people don't represent you by people who really do not represent you, so people vote for the people who really don't represent you. Meanwhile to show how much they've been conned, people go around throwing about terms about middle class / extreme left / populist liberal as if they are independent thoughts that they've had.

Finally, if we ever did have a proper working class leader who took "our" (lol) party forward and fought against inequality for all you'd be the first person on here going on about extreme marxism, anti-Britishness etc etc etc

 

[ForeverBlue92]

No, it isn't.

People have been told for years that these people don't represent you by people who really do not represent you, so people vote for the people who really don't represent you. Meanwhile to show how much they've been conned, people go around throwing about terms about middle class / extreme left / populist liberal as if they are independent thoughts that they've had.

Finally, if we ever did have a proper working class leader who took "our" (lol) party forward and fought against inequality for all you'd be the first person on here going on about extreme marxism, anti-Britishness etc etc etc

Working class isnt communism.

Communism/Fascism are different sides of the same coin - regimes used by the powerful to control the people.

If you cant see the left/Labour tries to umbrella many different people which in itself is unworkable then I dont know what to tell you.

But what I will tell you is a communist or liberal doesn't represent me, neither does some upper middle class oink from Surrey yet here we are voting for the same party.

 

[tsubaki]

Working class isnt communism.

Communism/Fascism are different sides of the same coin - regimes used by the powerful to control the people.

If you cant see the left/Labour tries to umbrella many different people which in itself is unworkable then I dont know what to tell you.

But what I will tell you is a communist or liberal doesn't represent me, neither does some upper middle class oink from Surrey yet here we are voting for the same party.

this is the thing though - "umbrealla many different people" is what most parties do, especially the Tories.

It isnt unworkable, indeed there is a lot more shared experience and reality between black or asian communities in London and white working class communities in the North / Wales / Scotland than there is between the people who vote Tory. The problem comes when people, like you on this occasion, try to pretend that its not possible to support both. It is.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

this is the thing though - "umbrealla many different people" is what most parties do, especially the Tories.

It isnt unworkable, indeed there is a lot more shared experience and reality between black or asian communities in London and white working class communities in the North / Wales / Scotland than there is between the people who vote Tory. The problem comes when people, like you on this occasion, try to pretend that its not possible to support both. It is.

Dont get me wrong there is division in the Tory ranks but I feel much less so than in Labour. There isn't much difference between Cameron/May/Johnson but we've just gone from Corbyn to Starmer! and before that Blair/Brown to Red Ed!

Then you have to ask yourself does Labour care about the North? Recent years tells me no - people like Andy Burnham will never have a sniff of one day becoming PM because he has a scouse accent.

The best thing for Labour (and Lib Dems post Clegg) is to break apart and reform 3-4 new parties that are more tailor made to the voters and not clumping communists in with centrists.

 

[Aberblue]

Dont get me wrong there is division in the Tory ranks but I feel much less so than in Labour. There isn't much difference between Cameron/May/Johnson but we've just gone from Corbyn to Starmer! and before that Blair/Brown to Red Ed!

Then you have to ask yourself does Labour care about the North? Recent years tells me no - people like Andy Burnham will never have a sniff of one day becoming PM because he has a scouse accent.

The best thing for Labour (and Lib Dems post Clegg) is to break apart and reform 3-4 new parties that are more tailor made to the voters and not clumping communists in with centrists.

That would be the perfect solution if we had a sensible voting system.

 

[Agent Blue]

What "proper working class leader" would you propose...?
In an ideal world the tory scum would be fired into the sun...IMO

Jon Crudass wouldn't be a bad choice.

 

[Agent Blue]

There may be trouble ahead.