Current Affairs The Labour Party

[catcherintherye]

How do you make your way in life without selling your labour?

Like I did deliveries for best part of 5 years; hardly a skill set, just a choice I made.

And without a market, what or who could I sell my labour to?

You would set up your own business, thus have a different relationship to the means of production.

When you worked as a deliver driver you would have been doing a working class job.

There are about 45% of job that arent reliant upon the market. The Soviet Union didnt have a classical market either, but employed hundreds of millions.

The market system is one method of doing things (which many regard the most superior).

 

[roydo]

I didn't imply that at all. I said the people running the LP now are apostles of the market, whereas the original intention of the LP was to blunt the market, to bring it to heel.

Unless you have a planned economy (only really workable with the world's resourses and cooperation of the world's population) you have to have the market. It then becomes a case of not being completely exploited by the market and surrendering your labour power for a hand full of beans.

Gotcha.

If someone wants to pay me a fortune (back in the day) to be exploited, fine by me, more fool them.

If folk then want crap delivered, again, fine by me.

 

[tsubaki]

It isn't a myth. It's what happened.

And yes, I'm aware it was initially an idea of Blair - as I said, it was a mistake that was exploited.

It didn't.

The right pretended it did, after they lost the 2016 contest (during which they kicked out a large number of people), and then some of them actually did it in 2019 when TIG was established and various hangers on left citing irreconcilable differences with Corbyn (almost all of whom got presents from this government afterwards). No MP was actually kicked out for their beliefs, even when they absolutely deserved to be.

 

[roydo]

You would set up your own business, thus have a different relationship to the means of production.

When you worked as a deliver driver you would have been doing a working class job.

There are about 45% of job that arent reliant upon the market. The Soviet Union didnt have a classical market either, but employed hundreds of millions.

The market system is one method of doing things (which many regard the most superior).

Thats the difference I guess.

I was just doing a job. If folk with an intellectual bent want to label folk depending on their own prejudice or political thing, fine. Just dont think that your (collective) label means a jot to most doing "working class jobs".

 

[summerisle]

 

[Blues Harp]

Spot on. It's about choosing battles. That's what the extremists don't understand - if you're against everything all the time, you lose the impact you can have when you're against something that's important.

Define what you mean by "against everything" Like homelessness? Poverty perhaps? Wasting public money on your cronies? Selling off the NHS piecemeal? Advocating zero hours contracts?
It's not being "against everything". What's wrong with wanting a fairer society where the dice are not so heavily loaded in favour of exploitative employers, hedge fund spivs, money laundering, disaster capitalists and off shore tax avoiders?

 

[Tubey]

It didn't.

The right pretended it did, after they lost the 2016 contest (during which they kicked out a large number of people), and then some of them actually did it in 2019 when TIG was established and various hangers on left citing irreconcilable differences with Corbyn (almost all of whom got presents from this government afterwards). No MP was actually kicked out for their beliefs, even when they absolutely deserved to be.

No I mean the leadership rule change. Wasn't a myth.

How leadership rule changes have led to a fight for the very soul of the Labour party | Meg Russell

The triumph of ‘direct’ democracy over representative democracy has brought about a nightmare scenario for the left

www.theguardian.com

I know Corbyn didn't "purge" members - Starmer's actually done more than that. His was an ideological purge rather than a personnel one.

 

[catcherintherye]

Thats the difference I guess.

I was just doing a job. If folk with an intellectual bent want to label folk depending on their own prejudice or political thing, fine. Just dont think that your (collective) label means a jot to most doing "working class jobs".

Why does the label of doing a "working" job when working cause you a seeming annoyance though?

I mean whatever you want to label things, there is a commonality in experience in different types of employment arent there?

I'm also not entirely sure what the prejudice is here mate? You were discussing what being working class means, and people are giving you an answer. Call it doing a job, working, being working class, grafting etc, the label isnt massively important.

As for the final issue, I'm not sure I remember saying I wanted the label to mean anything. How people choose to categorise their employment is up to them.

 

[davek]

Quite right too, with more cuts to come if the Blairism continues. The money saved on funding Starmer's right wing leadership will now be paid out to grass roots left wing organisations.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I like this quote:

The source went on to say that Mr McCluskey was likely to redirect the money to left-wing grassroots organisations to support a socialist programme, "which he sees as vital to produce a Labour victory in 2024".

Here is another quote, this time by Einstein:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I like this quote:

The source went on to say that Mr McCluskey was likely to redirect the money to left-wing grassroots organisations to support a socialist programme, "which he sees as vital to produce a Labour victory in 2024".

Here is another quote, this time by Einstein:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

We have to accept Unite right to withdraw funding as they see fit as much as we have to accept Starmer being Labour... leader...

 

[The binman chronicles]

We have to accept Unite right to withdraw funding as they see fit as much as we have to accept Starmer being Labour... leader...

Yes they can obviously put their money where they want. But it doesn't help change the fact that it likely leads to 5 more years of Tory rule if they don't find common ground and pull together.

 

[roydo]

Why does the label of doing a "working" job when working cause you a seeming annoyance though?

I mean whatever you want to label things, there is a commonality in experience in different types of employment arent there?

I'm also not entirely sure what the prejudice is here mate? You were discussing what being working class means, and people are giving you an answer. Call it doing a job, working, being working class, grafting etc, the label isnt massively important.

As for the final issue, I'm not sure I remember saying I wanted the label to mean anything. How people choose to categorise their employment is up to them.

I guess its folk in politics/academia who dont really work, preaching about being the party for the working class when they dont actually know what they are on about.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Yes they can obviously put their money where they want. But it doesn't help change the fact that it likely leads to 5 more years of Tory rule if they don't find common ground and pull together.

They are not pulling all their funding only 10% that is still 90% common ground, for a broad church its pretty good going... At moment sounds like some tactical PR for the easy minded, of course if it continues to near 50% and below, Starmer really does have a problem...

 

[roydo]

I like this quote:

The source went on to say that Mr McCluskey was likely to redirect the money to left-wing grassroots organisations to support a socialist programme, "which he sees as vital to produce a Labour victory in 2024".

Here is another quote, this time by Einstein:

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Did they have a democratic vote before he decided how to spend his members money?