Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Spadge Vernacular]

Mad that in 2017 we were potentjallg deprived of a Labour government because people in the party actually sabotaged their own chances of winning is what you should be saying.

Potentially 'this or that' mate we are here now so we can either spend the few years under Starmer finishing the party off through infighting or we can deal with the current situation as one and move on.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

When Corbyn and Momentum came along there was only one game in town: austerity. Do you think there would have been a shift in public opinion if we'd still had both parties promising to make cuts?

What shift mate, do you mean the one that saw us get annihilated?

 

[dannyboy]

Potentially 'this or that' mate we are here now so we can either spend the few years under Starmer finishing the party off through infighting or we can deal with the current situation as one and move on.

The thing is, if we just ´move on´ and these wreckers remain in the party then they will do the exact same to Starmer as they did to Corbyn. Unite the movement by all means but in order to do that we need to be shut of people who were actively supporting the Tories whilst picking up their wages at our expense.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The thing is, if we just ´move on´ and these wreckers remain in the party then they will do the exact same to Starmer as they did to Corbyn. Unite the movement by all means but in order to do that we need to be shut of people who were actively supporting the Tories whilst picking up their wages at our expense.

My personal view is that we need to get shut of Momentum first.

 

[shagpuss]

Potentially 'this or that' mate we are here now so we can either spend the few years under Starmer finishing the party off through infighting or we can deal with the current situation as one and move on.

This is not "infighting". It's a plan from a clique in party HQ to undermine anything mildy progressive within the Labour Party. Starting under Miliband but massively escalating under Corbyn.
These scumbags sat on complaints about racism so they could be later used against the leadership. They actively undermined a genuine chance to win the 2017 election. They made sure money and resources were sent to their favoured MPs, not where it was most needed. They used repulsive language to describe colleagues and tried to destroy MPs with fragile mental health.
These people named in the document are 100% to blame for this. None of this six of one and half a dozen of the other crap.

 

[shagpuss]

My personal view is that we need to get shut of Momentum first.

Good luck with that. One of the few positives who helped enthuse thousand of young people into the Labour Party. They've also campaigned for all wings of the party. They turned up in their hundreds to help out John Woodcock in Barrow in 2017.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

The thing is, if we just ´move on´ and these wreckers remain in the party then they will do the exact same to Starmer as they did to Corbyn. Unite the movement by all means but in order to do that we need to be shut of people who were actively supporting the Tories whilst picking up their wages at our expense.

Unlikely if not impossible to happen. KS has a powerbase in the PLP and is not universally derided (JC) or disliked (JM) within the PLP.

These LP operatives are absolute shitehouses, mind, no argument there - hold them to account if you like but it's retrospectively rearrangng the deck chairs on the Titanic .This sort of cancerous plotting is just inevitable when the party membership returns a weak leader who is unacceptable to the PLP. Even a personally gifted, capable leader woudn't make any headway against a party aligned against him like that, let alone JC. He should never, ever have been there in the first place and has cost us five years minimum - prob twice that if you consider the opportunity cost of failing to get someone credible in the chair after Milliband.

 

[shagpuss]

Unlikely if not impossible to happen. KS has a powerbase in the PLP and is not universally derided (JC) or disliked (JM) within the PLP.

These LP operatives are absolute shitehouses, mind, no argument there - hold them to account if you like but it's retrospectively rearrangng the deck chairs on the Titanic .This sort of cancerous plotting is just inevitable when the party membership returns a weak leader who is unacceptable to the PLP. Even a personally gifted, capable leader woudn't make any headway against a party aligned against him like that, let alone JC. He should never, ever have been there in the first place and has cost us five years minimum - prob twice that if you consider the opportunity cost of failing to get someone credible in the chair after Milliband.

What else was on offer in 2015 though? Cooper, Kendall and Burnham? Not a very appetising choice. The first two are dreadful.
Corbyn offered hope and answers to a large number of people ground down by the Tories. He took May's majority away and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on her than the last 35 years combined.
This despite the overt and covert hostility of the PLP. He's been attacked by the media and their allies in big business. Despite all this, Labour came fairly close to leading a coalition government after 2017.
Corbyn has undoubtedly shift the scope of what's possible. Nationalisation, anti-austerity and tax increases for the wealthy are all viable policies and Corbyn and McDonnell must take a large amount of credit for this.
He was exactly what we needed in 2015. It's just a shame the right-wing of the Labour Party acted like such turds throughout.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

This is not "infighting". It's a plan from a clique in party HQ to undermine anything mildy progressive within the Labour Party. Starting under Miliband but massively escalating under Corbyn.
These scumbags sat on complaints about racism so they could be later used against the leadership. They actively undermined a genuine chance to win the 2017 election. They made sure money and resources were sent to their favoured MPs, not where it was most needed. They used repulsive language to describe colleagues and tried to destroy MPs with fragile mental health.
These people named in the document are 100% to blame for this. None of this six of one and half a dozen of the other crap.

We shall see but right now it looks like infighting and sounds like infighting.

Lets hope the we can learn and move on and the small vocal clique of Momentum crackpots who managed to piss everyone off will either drift away or be pushed out.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

What else was on offer in 2015 though? Cooper, Kendall and Burnham? Not a very appetising choice. The first two are dreadful.
Corbyn offered hope and answers to a large number of people ground down by the Tories. He took May's majority away and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on her than the last 35 years combined.
This despite the overt and covert hostility of the PLP. He's been attacked by the media and their allies in big business. Despite all this, Labour came fairly close to leading a coalition government after 2017.
Corbyn has undoubtedly shift the scope of what's possible. Nationalisation, anti-austerity and tax increases for the wealthy are all viable policies and Corbyn and McDonnell must take a large amount of credit for this.
He was exactly what we needed in 2015. It's just a shame the right-wing of the Labour Party acted like such turds throughout.

Are you a Momentum member?

 

[dannyboy]

My personal view is that we need to get shut of Momentum first.

Why do you hate Momentum so much? It´s just a lot of under 30s interested in left wing politics trying to get a Labour government into power.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Why do you hate Momentum so much? It´s just a lot of under 30s interested in left wing politics trying to get a Labour government into power.

Not a fan of cults nor the idea of a party within a party being a sensible way forward. I could go on but if you can't see the issues with Momentum its probably not worth discussing.

 

[dannyboy]

Not a fan of cults nor the idea of a party within a party being a sensible way forward. I could go on but if you can't see the issues with Momentum its probably not worth discussing.

The problem with Momentum is that they dare to change the way things are and therefore must be stopped at all costs. Political discourse for the establishment is much better when the difference in opinion between parties is very little if any at all.

I hope one day people realise there was never any cult, just a bunch of left wing people doing their best to get a left wing government elected.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

What else was on offer in 2015 though? Cooper, Kendall and Burnham? Not a very appetising choice. The first two are dreadful.
Corbyn offered hope and answers to a large number of people ground down by the Tories. He took May's majority away and inflicted more parliamentary defeats on her than the last 35 years combined.
This despite the overt and covert hostility of the PLP. He's been attacked by the media and their allies in big business. Despite all this, Labour came fairly close to leading a coalition government after 2017.
Corbyn has undoubtedly shift the scope of what's possible. Nationalisation, anti-austerity and tax increases for the wealthy are all viable policies and Corbyn and McDonnell must take a large amount of credit for this.
He was exactly what we needed in 2015. It's just a shame the right-wing of the Labour Party acted like such turds throughout.

You think Yvette Cooper is dreadful? I think you must mean you find her politics dreadful, because her ability is obvious and she also has backbone - absolutely showed her arse to that tribe of Yorkshire pygmies she represents over Brexit, at some personal cost in terms of harassment and threats of deselection, and still got returned in the general. But sure, I can see she's not everyone's cup of tea for labour leader and it wasn't the right time. Still would have been 1000 times better than JC, mind.

Vice versa I don't mind Corbyn's politics but think he's a dreadful incompetent, so his politics don't matter as he can never realise them. Up to you if you want to peddle the fantasy of him influencing the scope of what's possible, I don't think anyone is seriously going to challenge you there as we all have respect for the grieving process. The left has just been annihilated at the ballot box so some straw-clutching is inevitable to try and make sense of the whole thing.

 

[Tubey]

You think Yvette Cooper is dreadful? I think you must mean you find her politics dreadful, because her ability is obvious and she also has backbone - absolutely showed her arse to that tribe of Yorkshire pygmies she represents over Brexit, at some personal cost in terms of harassment and threats of deselection, and still got returned in the general. But sure, I can see she's not everyone's cup of tea for labour leader and it wasn't the right time. Still would have been 1000 times better than JC, mind.

Vice versa I don't mind Corbyn's politics but think he's a dreadful incompetent, so his politics don't matter as he can never realise them. Up to you if you want to peddle the fantasy of him influencing the scope of what's possible, I don't think anyone is seriously going to challenge you there as we all have respect for the grieving process. The left has just been annihilated at the ballot box so some straw-clutching is inevitable to try and make sense of the whole thing.

The only fault Cooper has is the legacy of the Brown years, which tarnished her. Specifically, her husband being Ed Balls.

She's one of the very, very few competent MPs in the HoC right now - you can count them on one hand really.