Current Affairs The Labour Party

[The binman chronicles]

But no, the prevailing attitude seems to be, "They´re all Marxists, purge them."

It´s clear from the last couple of days the right of the party is itching for a civil war; it´ll be a bloodbath and it´s one they will probably lose. The party as a whole should be looking to build a consensus between all sides and agreeing on ideas and values that can take our movement forward with everyone included.

This is the thing though, how long have people like Corbyn and Abbott etc. been MPs for? They would have seen the New Labour years and were not purged. No one needs purging but there needs to be a degree of understanding that to get elected Labour need to act and project x. Pretty much like you have said under the broadchurch of a socialist party that spans centre to left, think tanks on all sides need to come up with the policies that are most important, but crucially that do not impede the ability to win an election.

The centre can't rule and dictate how Labour moves forward but the left are in the same position too. You just need someone strong enough to be able to let both sides feel they're getting a fair crack of the whip, but have that understanding of what the public will be able to swallow especially in the early years of a Labour government. Once people can see it isn't frightening and 3 day weeks the more socialist policies can start to come through. One day the country will be ready for a complete shift to what Corbyn was trying to do but we're not at that stage yet, so unfortunately pragmatism is the order of the day to try to give a chance to help the people most in need.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why?

You won't like it, and it's undoubtedly not fair (or perhaps even rational), but she doesn't look like a leader (just as Corbyn didn't). Look at the evidence, and most political leaders are tall. I think something like 90% of the winners in US elections over the last 100 years have been taller than their opponent (and I say this as a short guy - it sucks, but it is what it is).

https://www.economist.com/business/2014/09/27/the-look-of-a-leader explains the various biases that creep in when society selects leaders more eloquently than I could on a Sunday morning. It's why Corbyn's Lenin hat and scruffy jacket at the cenotaph were such silly and avoidable own goals. You could even say his beard worked against him (can you think of a political leader with one outside of latin America?).

These are undoubtedly shallow ways of judging someone, but we must surely realise by now that most peoples choice is based upon fairly shallow reasoning as they're not as into politics (by a long way) as you and I.

 

[gonetomorrow]

Labour is split between xenophobes in the north and the prawn sandwich brigade in London.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Why?

Brexit obsessives, remainers transitioning to rejoiners and are looking for a candidate to congeal round now Swinson been booted, they can tootle off to Berger or Chukka.

 

[Billy Dean]

You won't like it, and it's undoubtedly not fair (or perhaps even rational), but she doesn't look like a leader (just as Corbyn didn't). Look at the evidence, and most political leaders are tall. I think something like 90% of the winners in US elections over the last 100 years have been taller than their opponent (and I say this as a short guy - it sucks, but it is what it is).

https://www.economist.com/business/2014/09/27/the-look-of-a-leader explains the various biases that creep in when society selects leaders more eloquently than I could on a Sunday morning. It's why Corbyn's Lenin hat and scruffy jacket at the cenotaph were such silly and avoidable own goals. You could even say his beard worked against him (can you think of a political leader with one outside of latin America?).

These are undoubtedly shallow ways of judging someone, but we must surely realise by now that most peoples choice is based upon fairly shallow reasoning as they're not as into politics (by a long way) as you and I.

Absolutely true. We have all sorts of unconscious biases whether that be voting for a PM, hiring someone to do a job, choosing a partner etc.

Someone was in the paper saying they didn’t vote for Corbyn because they didn’t like his mannerisms.

Who was the last elected PM that didn’t have a plummy southern accent? There hasn’t been one in my lifetime.

 

[Billy Dean]

Labour are screwed.....

This is a concise summation of the last 3 day’s’ discussion in this thread

 

[dannyboy]

This is the thing though, how long have people like Corbyn and Abbott etc. been MPs for? They would have seen the New Labour years and were not purged. No one needs purging but there needs to be a degree of understanding that to get elected Labour need to act and project x. Pretty much like you have said under the broadchurch of a socialist party that spans centre to left, think tanks on all sides need to come up with the policies that are most important, but crucially that do not impede the ability to win an election.

The centre can't rule and dictate how Labour moves forward but the left are in the same position too. You just need someone strong enough to be able to let both sides feel they're getting a fair crack of the whip, but have that understanding of what the public will be able to swallow especially in the early years of a Labour government. Once people can see it isn't frightening and 3 day weeks the more socialist policies can start to come through. One day the country will be ready for a complete shift to what Corbyn was trying to do but we're not at that stage yet, so unfortunately pragmatism is the order of the day to try to give a chance to help the people most in need.

With regards to the first point, I'm simply referring to the rhetoric being used by certain Labour figures right now.

People will tell you that the country will never elect a socialist government but two years ago we were in touching distance of that very thing happening. You can say that it was because Theresa May was dreadful and there's an element of truth in that, but equally so was Corbyn. If Labour had a more competent and likeable figure at the helm offering those ideas we could be two years into a left wing administration right now.

As much as we squirm and wince at what happened on Thursday, we can't rule out 2017, which was the best performance by the party in a decade.

Right now, pragmatism is likely the order because the media are going to be relentless in their pursuit of it. But the party should do everything it can to keep everyone on side. The last thing we need is another war with each sniping and plotting against each other's every move.

 

[dannyboy]

You won't like it, and it's undoubtedly not fair (or perhaps even rational), but she doesn't look like a leader (just as Corbyn didn't). Look at the evidence, and most political leaders are tall. I think something like 90% of the winners in US elections over the last 100 years have been taller than their opponent (and I say this as a short guy - it sucks, but it is what it is).

https://www.economist.com/business/2014/09/27/the-look-of-a-leader explains the various biases that creep in when society selects leaders more eloquently than I could on a Sunday morning. It's why Corbyn's Lenin hat and scruffy jacket at the cenotaph were such silly and avoidable own goals. You could even say his beard worked against him (can you think of a political leader with one outside of latin America?).

These are undoubtedly shallow ways of judging someone, but we must surely realise by now that most peoples choice is based upon fairly shallow reasoning as they're not as into politics (by a long way) as you and I.

You are doubtlessly correct. Image and persona go a hell of a long way in helping politicians become electable. Would Obama have been elected if he had darker skin? We will never know but I have my doubts.

With regards to Corbyn, he didn't look the part and his personality, especially when with the media resembled a grumpy old granddad. I remember in the first few months when he needed to make a positive impact that he spent his time running away from TV crews. Yes, it's an absolute pain they stalk you but that's life as the leader of the opposition. Deal with it and smile.

 

[The binman chronicles]

With regards to the first point, I'm simply referring to the rhetoric being used by certain Labour figures right now.

People will tell you that the country will never elect a socialist government but two years ago we were in touching distance of that very thing happening. You can say that it was because Theresa May was dreadful and there's an element of truth in that, but equally so was Corbyn. If Labour had a more competent and likeable figure at the helm offering those ideas we could be two years into a left wing administration right now.

As much as we squirm and wince at what happened on Thursday, we can't rule out 2017, which was the best performance by the party in a decade.

Right now, pragmatism is likely the order because the media are going to be relentless in their pursuit of it. But the party should do everything it can to keep everyone on side. The last thing we need is another war with each sniping and plotting against each other's every move.

2017 was a great result but given how badly the Tories had done with the whole Brexit mess and Corbyn energising the core supporters, they were still 64 seats down from getting a one seat majority. In popular vote terms, yes it was superb, but in terms of constituencies where it counts could it really be described touching distance?

 

[dannyboy]

2017 was a great result but given how badly the Tories had done with the whole Brexit mess and Corbyn energising the core supporters, they were still 64 seats down from getting a one seat majority. In popular vote terms, yes it was superb, but in terms of constituencies where it counts could it really be described touching distance?

Important to remember that Brexit wasn't a big issue then. There was no mess and both parties agreed that we would be leaving.

If Labour increases their vote by 10% at the next election, we will all jump for joy and say how well the new leader has done. Considering it's our best result in recent times it shouldn't be completely disregarded because of last night.

A push to the very centre of British politics is being advocated by a lot of people right now. These people have won nothing for a very, very long time. It's 14 years since they won an election, along the way they lost a Brexit referendum and they can't even persuade party members they have a vision to take Labour forward.

I'm not saying these people should be ignored. They should be at the centre of any discussion on the party's future, but there has to be a consensus built. Yes we have differing viewpoints but at heart we are all democratic socialists who want Labour to win again.

 

[PSB1]

the country will never elect a socialist government but two years ago we were in touching distance of that very thing happening

In fairness, Labour were still behind the Tories by 55 seats in 2017 - a not inconsiderable gap - and with weakened majorities in a number of other previously safe seats. These seats then fell this year.

Not sure I'd have been too triumphalist about 2017.

 

[dannyboy]

In fairness, Labour were still behind the Tories by 55 seats in 2017 - a not inconsiderable gap - and with weakened majorities in a number of other previously safe seats. These seats then fell this year.

Not sure I'd have been too triumphalist about 2017.

Merely making the point, that with a more competent and likeable leader the manifesto could have been given the green light by the British people.

I confidently say that no other leader such as Burnham or Cooper would have done that well in 2017. Why? Because unlike Corbyn they hadn't sensed there was a change in the public's attitude towards austerity.

 

[sbbefc]

You won't like it, and it's undoubtedly not fair (or perhaps even rational), but she doesn't look like a leader (just as Corbyn didn't). Look at the evidence, and most political leaders are tall. I think something like 90% of the winners in US elections over the last 100 years have been taller than their opponent (and I say this as a short guy - it sucks, but it is what it is).

https://www.economist.com/business/2014/09/27/the-look-of-a-leader explains the various biases that creep in when society selects leaders more eloquently than I could on a Sunday morning. It's why Corbyn's Lenin hat and scruffy jacket at the cenotaph were such silly and avoidable own goals. You could even say his beard worked against him (can you think of a political leader with one outside of latin America?).

These are undoubtedly shallow ways of judging someone, but we must surely realise by now that most peoples choice is based upon fairly shallow reasoning as they're not as into politics (by a long way) as you and I.

In hindsight, if the tories had went for Johnson as leader in 2017 they'd have won that election too (maybe not by the same margin).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In hindsight, if the tories had went for Johnson as leader in 2017 they'd have won that election too (maybe not by the same margin).

Quite probably.

 

[catcherintherye]

Labour's Scottish strategy has been a joke under JC - you can say the UK is not really a left-wing country but Scotland for sure is not (used to live there, extremely small c conservative place), zero appetite for Corbyn's people of his policies. I don't understand it, it's like labour has written it off like they're up against the Tories in Surrey or somewhere, completely unwinnable. It was red not even a generation ago and the SNP are a band of comedians once you get past like 5 front bench people.

Thats fair enough, but Scotland is to the left of England on a whole range of questions.

After working with the Tories in 2014 in better together Labour has been slaughtered. That is the pivotal moment here. No leader since then has won those seats back, and short of supporting independence no leader will.