Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Methuselah]

Michael Foot didn't win 40% of the vote at the election before though.

Take your point dannyboy but different times, different circumstances. Corbyn was only up against May (who was making a pig's ear of Brexit), It was obvious that the key factor in this election was Brexit and Corbyn sitting on the fence did for him. The electorate wanted closure on Brexit and Johnson promised it. Corbyn's tactics made him look weak, and I think many voter's already thought him weak. It just confirmed it.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Going to be a long road back mate,
New leader only part of it.
need to sharpen up all around in the quest for power,
Long hard look at why ,northern , scots and Welsh people all jumped ship.
Saying that how far out were people saying Corbyn , Abbott , ect were a liability, even before that Miliband same story same outcome.
Nobody took a blind bit of notice
The anti semitism thing needs dealing with very quickly.
They had ample time to get to grips with that well before the election
The amount of spending announcements was mind blowing, I agreed with quite a bit of it but how many did we really need.
Every other day it was something else , should have just went on about 3 or 4 core issues and gone for it every chance they got.
Who ever thought up the brexit stance needs throwing in the bin, they alienated a huge number of people in the run up and that was a vote/seat loser in the GE.
Should spend a few years getting to grips with why vast amounts of people dont feel engaged by the party, even myself I was just voting against the tories nothing
Much else I didn't have much faith in the front bench. Who in the main were as alien to me as most of the Tories,
I know others I have spoken to have said the same .
They need to get people to believe they are not an open door party , a lot within the party might not like what they hear on the doorstep, but it's there people dont want it when it comes to the ballot box.
I listened to Abbott on tv going on about it the other week I couldn't believe what I was hearing two weeks out .
it's at the very heart of the party which needs looking at.
People should feel they are getting a party that will give them stability in the modern world, jobs housing ect and less grand standing on Brexit ect.
Its seen as a London /Uni centric party now rightly or wrongly.,
London isnt the rest of the UK
It's as different as say Munich to most people in the likes of Burnley ect, thinks different acts different has different values as well , they need to feel included and to feel valued not just a safe vote and put back in the box.till the next election.
This GE has ended that for ever.
To be honest mate I dont think in its present form it's in any way shape or form electable for the foreseeable future sadly.
I dont see any easy fix to get the soul of the party in line with the voters who have turned there back on labour.
That's the last three GE that any even half decent opposition should have walked.
They have let the county and the working class down by sticking with the Corbyn project and weakened the party while doing it, havnt heard anything to say they have learned anything to say it will change.
Johnson just said get Brexit done like a parrot, in fact I think a parrot could have won this election for the tories , he hid phones and hid in freezers bonked yanks , and won without breaking sweat that's how easy it was for him.
They have good people labour on the ground enthusiastic, engaged and putting in the efford , they deserve better, lions led by donkeys. Springs to mind.
Hopefully there are the people within that group with the talent to sort it all out, they deserve a lot better.

Sad but true all of that.

I actually think they should have come out with a full-on Brexit policy either way. Either they accepted the Leave vote in the referendum and made it an election about economic policy only, or went 100% Remain and made the election effectively a re-run of the referendum. They would still have lost traditional Labour voters but would have attracted voters from other parties who were anti-Brexit. They may still have lost the election but by a much smaller margin and it could have resulted in a hung parliament.

The shilly-shallying around the issue and attempting to be neutral did them no favours at all, as they came across as being indecisive which is a surefire vote loser.

 

[dannyboy]

Take your point dannyboy but different times, different circumstances. Corbyn was only up against May (who was making a pig's ear of Brexit), It was obvious that the key factor in this election was Brexit and Corbyn sitting on the fence did for him. The electorate wanted closure on Brexit and Johnson promised it. Corbyn's tactics made him look weak, and I think many voter's already thought him weak. It just confirmed it.

I think a lot of us missed the blindingly obvious about Brexit. It's a shame Corbyn didn't stick what I think was his gut instinct and ignored the calls for a second referendum, but as you say, too weak.

 

[peteblue]

I remember the election in 1983 when Labour lost with Michael Foot leading the party. After the election, the general view was: How could Labour go into an election with such a poor leader. He was a disaster in the polls. They say you should learn from your mistakes but Labour have just fought an election with a Michael Foot clone.

This really.....at least Foot won more seats......

 

[neil999]

This really.....at least Foot won more seats......

And a bigger intellect

 

[peteblue]

I think a lot of us missed the blindingly obvious about Brexit. It's a shame Corbyn didn't stick what I think was his gut instinct and ignored the calls for a second referendum, but as you say, too weak.

I agree with this, the problem is that he is a weak man. Had he kept faith with the voters and promised to deliver Brexit he may have won. But he chickened out, followed the Remainers and promised another referendum, this is what killed him. On his gravestone will be the words “ I should have followed my own beliefs”......

 

[dannyboy]

I agree with this, the problem is that he is a weak man. Had he kept faith with the voters and promised to deliver Brexit he may have won. But he chickened out, followed the Remainers and promised another referendum, this is what killed him. On his gravestone will be the words “ I should have followed my own beliefs”......

You very much are the voter lost in these northern towns, fella. I don't know if he'd have won, but I doubt he'd have lost so badly.

 

[Aberblue]

I think a lot of us missed the blindingly obvious about Brexit. It's a shame Corbyn didn't stick what I think was his gut instinct and ignored the calls for a second referendum, but as you say, too weak.

I don't normally defend Corbyn, but on this issue the majority of his party's members, if not its voters, were strongly in favour of another referendum.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Well as someone who lives in one of those towns, I can assure you that for the majority of people I have talked to he was wasn't the main reason.
Usual caveat applies regarding sample size, I didn't stand in the town centre taking a survey.

Why is that though when they all voted for him two years ago? It's not like he's changed (lol at that old codger changing). I mean I think he's the worst labour leader in 100 years, but don't think anyone gets to play that hand with success. Reckon it was 100% Brexit and a labour voter base fractured into two diametrically opposed halves.

Thought a minority government was an outside bet (more hope than expectation), but some of those swings were off the scale. Just says to me it was a tidal wave of events and no labour leader could have stood up to them.

 

[dannyboy]

I don't normally defend Corbyn, but on this issue the majority of his party's members, if not its voters, were strongly in favour of another referendum.

Yes but I don't think he was and it would seem rightly so. If he'd stood up to the people telling him to go for the second referendum he might have done better.

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree with this, the problem is that he is a weak man. Had he kept faith with the voters and promised to deliver Brexit he may have won. But he chickened out, followed the Remainers and promised another referendum, this is what killed him. On his gravestone will be the words “ I should have followed my own beliefs”......

That killed us mate. I know the agenda currently is was it Brexit or was it Corbyn, and in truth it was both. However the primary concern of people I spoke to was Brexit, and the dislike of Corbyn was linked to the Brexit position (nominally that Corbyn had gone back on what he had said). This also killed one of the few strengths he had, that he was a principled politician. I think for a lot of people, they could forgive lots of other stuff because he was principled. That became very difficult to sell.

I am seeing a lot of people, from the centre of politics and our party demanding people own the election result, but refusing point blank to accept any responsibility. They are even accusing those who raise it as making excuses. It's incredible luck of self awareness.

If Brexit had no part to play, why is it nearly all of the seats lost were in leave areas? Why is it we made gains in remain areas, and held seats like Canterbury (once solid tory seats?)

Whatever we think of Corbyn (and there have been lots of mistakes) I do find it very hard to stomach the idea that the people behind the original remain vote, and the subsequent 4 years of the people's vote campaign are who we need to listen too to understand politics. They are very bad at politics, and either don't understand or don't care to understand swathes of the electorate.

When you boil it down tactically. 17.4 million people voted to leave. 0.6 million of those voted for the BXP. That leaves 16.8 million. We allowed the Tories a completely free run at those people. Johnson did what he had to do, he converted 83% of them (at most as I'm sure they kept some retainers). A really stupid decision.

My real concern, is we end up with another remainer. Either Jess Phillips or Dawn Butler. One will think she can win them back because she has a Birmingham accent, the other because she has some left wing policies. Without moving from remain, they will not.

 

[Rob17896]

I feel this deserves a thread in itself.

One of the more frustrating things about the 'dissenters' within the Labour party is that they have been unable to articulate any alternative policy proposals. If you take a read of Progress it seems to be a collation of Blair-esque soundbites over "embracing <insert issue here> and dealing with it head on".

I'm not a huge fan of the current leader, but at least he has set out a vision for a Labour government that isn't ashamed of embracing Labour values. The party membership continues to increase, he has generated genuine political enthusiasm amongst the young, and has allowed for the open debate in which will formulate into a positive, existing Labour Manifesto for years to come.

Corbyn is saying today that Labour should be the voice of the working class. Who are they? The old lines of demarcation no longer exist. Things are more complicated. Labour should ensure skills and opportunity for all. It will not be too long before certain types of lawyer for instance will be replaced by AI. Who will support them?

Labour should support everyone to have enough for dignity and to partake in society. It is not a class war.

 

[catcherintherye]

Oh we're talking theoretically here.

It's odds on Momentum will punch themselves in the face once more and put Long-Bailey or Thornberry in charge.

Labour died when they changed the leadership rules due to the Momentum insurgency. The election thrashing was just the zombie corpse of the party being bashed over the head with a shovel - it had long since been dead.

Corbyn will go but that toxic membership that doesn't represent the country in any way whatsoever remains.

Momentum came after the rule change mate not the other way.

I suspect they will go for Dawn Butler for a number of reasons. It would be a disastrous move.

 

[Tubey]

Momentum came after the rule change mate not the other way.

I suspect they will go for Dawn Butler for a number of reasons. It would be a disastrous move.

It's a badly worded sentence but I meant "Labour died after they changed the leadership rules due to the Momentum insurgency."

 

[catcherintherye]

It's a badly worded sentence but I meant "Labour died after they changed the leadership rules due to the Momentum insurgency."

The irony of that was it was a long held idea of Tony Blair and put in by his disciple Harriet Harman. Oh how they regretted that move.