Current Affairs The Labour Party

[tsubaki]

Been trying to wrap my head around how you go from 40%, which let's face it shows an eminently electable person, to the electoral AIDS of last night. I mean he's hardly changed but we've basically seen disabled ex-miners queuing up to say how much they hate Corbyn and his policies.

2017 result did the damage, unfortunately - a bogus mandate for an unelectable leader.

The difference is that in 2017 a lot of Labours internal opposition shut up, in order to let him “own” the expected kicking.

When that didn’t happen, the likes of Austin, Woodcock, Leslie and Gapes resolved not to be that quiet this time and it had a bigger effect, especially as it tied in with the idea that the party had betrayed Leave voters and allowed a lot of the “Corbyn lives terrorists” stories to have a quote from a Labour MP in them.

Corbyns biggest failing was never to challenge this narrative - so a party which for example sacked people on active deployment in war zones, solely so they couldn’t get the pension they had worked decades to get, was free to say how we could trust them with national security.

 

[Connor]

safe pair of hands then - starmer

I like Starmer but I don't see how he wins people back that we lost last night.

Not unless they are destroyed, even further than they are now, by this government and realise how badly they got it wrong.

 

[dannyboy]

safe pair of hands then - starmer

Solid if not spectacular I would say. Not envious of the job he´s got.

 

[nsno-chris]

That (equality, support of the working class) is what Momentum want, though. Going on about identity politics / social justice is just a lazy criticism.

They're a hard left wing socialist movement, and Labour literally wanted to create a social justice committee. Feeding off peoples fears and telling them everything will be ok without actually tackling the root causes

 

[neil999]

I like Starmer but I don't see how he wins people back that we lost last night.

Not unless they are destroyed, even further than they are now, by this government and realise how badly they got it wrong.

no he wont, but he has credibility and he could form a decent and broad shadow cabinet...will have to claws things back bit by bit

 

[Connor]

no he wont, but he has credibility and he could form a decent and broad shadow cabinet...will have to claws things back bit by bit

Oh yeah, he could. I just don't know where we go from here.

It is utterly depressing.

 

[tsubaki]

They're a hard left wing socialist movement, and Labour literally wanted to create a social justice committee. Feeding off peoples fears and telling them everything will be ok without actually tackling the root causes

They aren’t though, and you can tell everything about your opinion by all those redundant words used in describing them as “a hard left socialist movement”, presumably because saying “socialist” wasn’t scary enough.

 

[dannyboy]

Unless I'm wrong, I can't name a European country that after decades of privatisation, renationalised its public services at the level that we would have to.

As for what would Labour should've done differently? Be more defiant, more clear, less fence sitting IMO.

As for the the propping up Corbyn. That's not a generalised view of younger people, I include the middle aged and older generation who also fit in that mould - leftist head in the cloud thinking

The rise in Corbyns popularity didn't come from the genuine working class voters IMO. He lost that vote even to a bigger extent that they flipped to Tories this election.

If that sounds like a dig, it's not. It's a fact.

That´s not an election winning strategy though. It´s not something you can put in a manifesto and sell to the people anyway. The rise in Corbyn´s popularity stemmed from an equally humiliating defeat under Miliband and a terrible leadership campaign from the Cooper´s and Burnham´s of the party. They didn´t know what to do or say.

I understand what you mean about ´genuine working class´ as being those from the northern towns who deserted the party last night but I´d say the process of them deserting the party started under New Labour. Last night was just the final chapter in a crap story.

 

[nsno-chris]

They aren’t though, and you can tell everything about your opinion by all those redundant words used in describing them as “a hard left socialist movement”, presumably because saying “socialist” wasn’t scary enough.

but they are, so...

 

[tsubaki]

That´s not an election winning strategy though. It´s not something you can put in a manifesto and sell to the people anyway. The rise in Corbyn´s popularity stemmed from an equally humiliating defeat under Miliband and a terrible leadership campaign from the Cooper´s and Burnham´s of the party. They didn´t know what to do or say.

I understand what you mean about ´genuine working class´ as being those from the northern towns who deserted the party last night but I´d say the process of them deserting the party started under New Labour. Last night was just the final chapter in a crap story.

The party has to re-engage with those towns and places for a start, and no more of this “well this issue has benefited us but not them, so we should go ahead with it” politics that has helped lead to this.

 

[tsubaki]

but they are, so...

They are socialists; that’s it. Or are there soft right wing socialists now?

 

[kenada_blue]

That´s not an election winning strategy though. It´s not something you can put in a manifesto and sell to the people anyway. The rise in Corbyn´s popularity stemmed from an equally humiliating defeat under Miliband and a terrible leadership campaign from the Cooper´s and Burnham´s of the party. They didn´t know what to do or say.

I understand what you mean about ´genuine working class´ as being those from the northern towns who deserted the party last night but I´d say the process of them deserting the party started under New Labour. Last night was just the final chapter in a crap story.

Most elections are won on short termism. What happening in that year, those months (economy, immigration, brexit being the big 3 of the last couple of elections). Corbyn was never defiant on the big issue.

I agree to a point. There was a massive but silent implosion in transition from new labour to what it is now. It's a broken party.

And the similar problem happened to the conservatives. They just didn't have a strong enough opposition to finally kick them into touch.

 

[nsno-chris]

They are socialists; that’s it. Or are there soft right wing socialists now?

so your saying there’s one type of socialism and that’s it??

 

[dannyboy]

The party has to re-engage with those towns and places for a start, and no more of this “well this issue has benefited us but not them, so we should go ahead with it” politics that has helped lead to this.

It does but even if we were to it´s still a ridiculous ask. We haven´t won an election without Scotland returning 40+ Labour MPs before. I just can´t see where those votes come from across the country right now.

 

[tsubaki]

so your saying there’s one type of socialism and that’s it??

No, I am saying that Momentum are socialists.

Putting all manner of descriptions beforehand - hard left, extreme, fringe, cultish or whatever - is just daft, especially as 99% of people don’t understand what socialism actually is.