Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Eggs]

Not saying Labour don't have their issues - they've clearly not been in touch with the UK majority for some time now - but at this point elections have become more about media image than actual policies and practicalities.
Remember when Milliband was pictured eating that roll and bacon? The press knew exactly how that would make him look - yet had absolutely nothing to do with his policies or campaign.

How are any party supposed to run a campaign when they're constantly having to combat looking "flustered" when out shopping, or looking "suspicious" when photographed writing a speech.

The people with the brains shouldn't have to deal with how to handle media invented crises instead of creating manifestos and policies.

....but the people with brains would have the foresight to see anti-Semitism was going to be a problem and deal with it efficiently. The people with Brains would’ve moved Corbyn on a long time ago because he’s unpopular with voters Labour need to attract and comes over like a shop stewards when interviewed. The people with Brains would promote Marxist policy without Marxist terminology (the manifesto is innovative, but they shouldn’t talk of hatred for the billionaires, they need to mellow the rhetoric). They need to have more rounded and intelligent MPs and less ex-union officials. They need to change their Governance so MPs have a greater role in electing the leader. They need to stop harassing and de-selecting MPs with more centre ground views.

I’ll be voting Labour but I don’t like this Labour Party.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm largely party agnostic to be honest, but have a liberal outlook on life. It's (moderately) interesting, as I do a lot of work in the tech field and the general reporting of technology tends to fall into either the "we're screwed" camp or the "we're saved" camp, with both adopting a generally very unrealistic view of the state of the technology, the speed of its adoption and all sorts of other things. Yet, despite that, the press is how most people develop an opinion on topics, so we can often get distorted viewpoints on things such as GM crops.

I can't help but feel a similar thing occurs in politics, whether on topics such as migration or crime, economics or the NHS. The political parties know that sensationalism is what the media tend to prefer, so they provide it. You can see it with Corbyn's 'NHS is being sold' thing today. It's daft, but it's done to secure column inches and sway people's opinions. It doesn't matter if it's largely nonsense.

Hans Rosling has done a load of research on just how distorted our views are on a whole bunch of things, and I dare say the majority of us are out of kilter on how the world really is. That's not healthy at all, and it's not helped by the bytesized way in which politicians communicate with the public. Heck, even lengthy interviews like the Andrew Neil ones are largely designed to create 'car crash' montages for YouTube rather than to truly inform people. It's a right state.

Yes all fair points. Our media is a shambles.

Do you recognise the point though, that the Liberal Democrats could have struck a harder bargain in 2010? I expect them to strike a harder bargain in 2019 if they are called too again.

 

[peteblue]

....but the people with brains would have the foresight to see anti-Semitism was going to be a problem and deal with it efficiently. The people with Brains would’ve moved Corbyn on a long time ago because he’s unpopular with voters Labour need to attract and comes over like a shop stewards when interviewed. The people with Brains would promote Marxist policy without Marxist terminology (the manifesto is innovative, but they shouldn’t talk of hatred for the billionaires, they need to mellow the rhetoric). They need to have more rounded and intelligent MPs and less ex-union officials. They need to change their Governance so MPs have a greater role in electing the leader. They need to stop harassing and de-selecting MPs with more centre ground views.

I’ll be voting Labour but I don’t like this Labour Party.

I agree with all of this before you ruined it with the last line. That is why some in Labour will never change because they get the votes anyway......make a point, vote for someone else or refuse to vote, but just going along with it all shouldn’t be a sensible option.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes all fair points. Our media is a shambles.

Do you recognise the point though, that the Liberal Democrats could have struck a harder bargain in 2010? I expect them to strike a harder bargain in 2019 if they are called too again.

I think it's slightly different in that the DUP had Brexit to bargain with. There was nothing as politically important for the 2010 government.

Plus, of course, paying the DUP off was relatively cheap.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Oh Johnson's a [Poor language removed], no doubts. People are living twice as long post-retirement now as when the state pension age was set at 65 in 1940, and with around £160bn per year spent on pensions by the government, it's almost the single biggest expenditure item they have. Pensions were largely predicated on younger generations being wealthier than their predecessors, but that's no longer the case, and old people should have to pay more of the burden.

It's a real vote loser though, as we've seen with May's attempt to get old folk to pay for more of their care. People want their cake and eat it, and politicians largely detached from any accountability for their promises are happy to promise them it in order to get votes. It's a sorry state.

And, of we are being blunt about it, people working in jobs that effectively shortened their life expectancy. The gap between retirement and death is now much larger than when the state pension was introduced.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I agree with all of this before you ruined it with the last line. That is why some in Labour will never change because they get the votes anyway......make a point, vote for someone else or refuse to vote, but just going along with it all shouldn’t be a sensible option.....

It may well be a considered position. I'm thoroughly disenchanted with Labour, the tribal rigidity of some views and the black and white positions on a number of things that really require some nuance is maddening.

However, they are by far the lesser of two evils when set against this Conservative party that is seeking to erode constitutional institutions and conventions, undermining safeguards for people in favour of profit, creating division among sections in society through racist and vidictive policy and pushing a Brexit on the country that they know to be worsening the UK position while fronted by a reckless wasteful duplicitous liar.

 

[Eggs]

I agree with all of this before you ruined it with the last line. That is why some in Labour will never change because they get the votes anyway......make a point, vote for someone else or refuse to vote, but just going along with it all shouldn’t be a sensible option.....

...I don’t vote blindly, Peter. I’ll be voting Labour because this Tory Party are worst. indeed, I think they are verging on being dangerous. Child poverty at record levels, Social Care and NHS in crisis. I wouldn’t trust them, they will do anything and say anything to secure power.

 

[peteblue]

It may well be a considered position. I'm thoroughly disenchanted with Labour, the tribal rigidity of some views and the black and white positions on a number of things that really require some nuance is maddening.

However, they are by far the lesser of two evils when set against this Conservative party that is seeking to erode constitutional institutions and conventions, undermining safeguards for people in favour of profit, creating division among sections in society through racist and vidictive policy and pushing a Brexit on the country that they know to be worsening the UK position while fronted by a reckless wasteful duplicitous liar.

But Labour is not going to win, so now is the very best time to make a visible protest against what they are doing and who they are led by......

 

[peteblue]

...I don’t vote blindly, Peter. I’ll be voting Labour because this Tory Party are worst. indeed, I think they are verging on being dangerous. Child poverty at record levels, Social Care and NHS in crisis. I wouldn’t trust them, they will do anything and say anything to secure power.

unlike Labour ?.....

 

[Jebus_lives]

But Labour is not going to win, so now is the very best time to make a visible protest against what they are doing and who they are led by......

No now is the time to ensure the Tories don't get a majority.

 

[Zezti]

These NHS trade talks documents need to be verified. For me, NHS comes first over Brexit, then everything else comes after.

Any government or party that considers breaking up parts of the NHS for trade reasons with the US is absolutely not worthy of being in charge of this country and I would hope other people would think the same.

But this needs to be investigated and verified. If Labour has made this up, I would be lose all remaining confidence in them.

 

[dwightschrute]

These NHS trade talks documents need to be verified. For me, NHS comes first over Brexit, then everything else comes after.

Any government or party that considers breaking up parts of the NHS for trade reasons with the US is absolutely not worthy of being in charge of this country and I would hope other people would think the same.

But this needs to be investigated and verified. If Labour has made this up, I would be lose all remaining confidence in them.

There is nothing made up about them, they are official meetings minutes, you just have to make up your mind about how damaging and how much it reveals. Obviously Labour have put hyperbole on it for headlines but to me it clearly shows USA hold all the power, want a no deal Brexit for maximum FTA effect and want to open up parts of the NHS to further privatisation (as some has already happened from both governments) and align us with their rules instead of the EU.

 

[Jebus_lives]

These NHS trade talks documents need to be verified. For me, NHS comes first over Brexit, then everything else comes after.

Any government or party that considers breaking up parts of the NHS for trade reasons with the US is absolutely not worthy of being in charge of this country and I would hope other people would think the same.

But this needs to be investigated and verified. If Labour has made this up, I would be lose all remaining confidence in them.

I suspect it is true, all the indications are there.

NHS: Future UK Trade Deals - Hansard - UK Parliament

Hansard record of the item : 'NHS: Future UK Trade Deals' on Thursday 4 July 2019.

hansard.parliament.uk

United States-United Kingdom Summary of Specific Negotiating Objectives

https://t.co/ogiyXaX7u9

This is effectively a request for UK to remove trade barriers for the US, without them opening theirs in return. It offers no incentive for UK trade.

There are no real benefits outlined for the UK, nothing about Financial services.

There is mention of removing barriers on agriculture, pricing in the NHS, it also wants no trade deal with China.

More importantly though is the removal of barriers in regard to US exports. The big issue with this is if we align our standards with that of the US, then it will inevitably make it more difficult for us to negotiate with the EU - who will expect their standards to be met when we seek to negotiate with them after Brexit.

From one 'protectionist racket' frying pan and into another 'protectionist racket' fire. The difference being, that the UK, under the banner of the EU, starts with a much better negotiating position with the US due to the relative strength of the market. The UK is in a much weaker position.

Wonderful Trojan horse this Brexit stuff.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There is nothing made up about them, they are official meetings minutes, you just have to make up your mind about how damaging and how much it reveals. Obviously Labour have put hyperbole on it for headlines but to me it clearly shows USA hold all the power, want a no deal Brexit for maximum FTA effect and want to open up parts of the NHS to further privatisation (as some has already happened from both governments) and align us with their rules instead of the EU.

What exactly has he revealed? I'll confess to not having much time to follow this today, so have only seen him in a press conference waving around the document saying it's proof that the 'NHS is for sale'. Did he go through the document and highlight exactly the bits that supported that point and how they did so?

 

[peteblue]

These NHS trade talks documents need to be verified. For me, NHS comes first over Brexit, then everything else comes after.

Any government or party that considers breaking up parts of the NHS for trade reasons with the US is absolutely not worthy of being in charge of this country and I would hope other people would think the same.

But this needs to be investigated and verified. If Labour has made this up, I would be lose all remaining confidence in them.

No one is suggesting breaking up the NHS. Just like WASPI £58Bn proposal pulled out of thin air when the polls were not looking good, this was brought out after Corbyn’s car crash. My guess is that they were going to bring this out and try it on a day or two before the election. Another ‘24 hours to save the nhs’ piece of nonsense, but were panicked into releasing it too early, and it will now be picked to pieces.

The USA would like to sell the U.K. more pharmaceutical products than they do now and at better prices, just as I’m sure the U.K. will want to do similar in the USA. Just like the EU sell to us today. It has nothing to do with GP surgeries, Hospitals or the management of the NHS. Nothing is being sold off and this is an outright lie by Labour.....