Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

He's a big Arsenal fan, enjoys football, and has gone to watch a local match while on Merseyside. I don't see what the big fuss is about.

Tory Theresa May posing with a Kopite shirt, unprompted for no reason was far more ridiculous in my view. The woman doesn't have a clue about football.

Would make more sense to me like.

I tried to tell @peteblue earlier that LFC boardroom places were held back for Liverpool Tory Party councillors once upon a time.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

He's always supported Arsenal mate. To be honest it's a bit snide the post to make out Arsenal fans support Arsenal due to anti-Semitism. I know a lot of Jewish Arsenal fans, lots support Spurs, but many support Arsenal. I didn't know that, but it's not that uncommon at all.

Twas a joke mate

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Once the Government indicated that it was talking all the franchises back in house the value of them all would collapse anyway.

It was interesting on Radio 4 this morning they had a discussion on free schools, and they basically said that despite huge variance in performance of schools, there's no evidence that either free schools or state schools are better. In other words, ideology matters less than the competence of those who run it. Despite this, Raynor persisted with the Labour thing that state is best.

It's all a bit dogmatic isn't it? I've said many times before that competence is what matters, and I can't help feeling that this crusade to nationalise the railways fits into a similar box, as there's a blind assumption that as soon as Corbyn has his hands on the wheel then things will magically improve. It would be nice if he followed evidence rather than the psalms written in his little red book.

 

[tsubaki]

Kate Hoey there.

I’ve said it before but this is very sad to watch, she was a good constituency MP.

It was interesting on Radio 4 this morning they had a discussion on free schools, and they basically said that despite huge variance in performance of schools, there's no evidence that either free schools or state schools are better. In other words, ideology matters less than the competence of those who run it. Despite this, Raynor persisted with the Labour thing that state is best.

It's all a bit dogmatic isn't it? I've said many times before that competence is what matters, and I can't help feeling that this crusade to nationalise the railways fits into a similar box, as there's a blind assumption that as soon as Corbyn has his hands on the wheel then things will magically improve. It would be nice if he followed evidence rather than the psalms written in his little red book.

Surely the fact that the free schools and the privatised rail network are both more expensive than the state equivalent must enter into the debate at some stage?

I mean all these jokes about cults and semi-religious figures do sort of miss the point that it’s successive Governments & their supporters that have been the ones sticking to dogma irrespective of reality and punishing those who question the faith.

 

[peteblue]

I see they have agonised over the wording of a vote regarding Brexit and have decided upon a vote ‘to leave all options on the table’. It’s like the Life of Brian with the Peoples Front of Judea.......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Surely the fact that the free schools and the privatised rail network are both more expensive than the state equivalent must enter into the debate at some stage?

I mean all these jokes about cults and semi-religious figures do sort of miss the point that it’s successive Governments & their supporters that have been the ones sticking to dogma irrespective of reality and punishing those who question the faith.

Are they more expensive? From my understanding of free schools, the only money that has gone into them has been related to capital expenditure (new buildings etc.), but there seems less evidence that they are operationally more expensive than state run schools. Happy to be pointed in that direction though.

 

[Number_25]

It was interesting on Radio 4 this morning they had a discussion on free schools, and they basically said that despite huge variance in performance of schools, there's no evidence that either free schools or state schools are better. In other words, ideology matters less than the competence of those who run it. Despite this, Raynor persisted with the Labour thing that state is best.

It's all a bit dogmatic isn't it? I've said many times before that competence is what matters, and I can't help feeling that this crusade to nationalise the railways fits into a similar box, as there's a blind assumption that as soon as Corbyn has his hands on the wheel then things will magically improve. It would be nice if he followed evidence rather than the psalms written in his little red book.

It's quite funny to think that maintaining ideology is a re-emerging concept, given the fact that our country was recently implicit in the deaths of over one million Iraqis on the basis of securing Western interests in finite natural resources.

But anyway...

I haven't looked for awhile, but this was a hot-topic a couple of years ago during the Cameron era. I remember reading a paper that concluded that the idea of so-callled free schools being able to lower costs whilst maintaining or increasing educational quality to be a proven falsehood.

That being said, I have no problem with being openly ideological on matters of education and health. I don't believe that the neo-liberal consensus of allowing free-markets to grow in every aspect of our lives is a healthy prospect. We have to accept that in some instances, there is little profit motive - and in those instances the state should step in and provide said services.

Education is one of them.

Edit: I'll also add that your ad-hominem attacks are indicative of someone with strong, dogmatic, ideological views. Stop pretending otherwise.

 

[summerisle]

He's probably a political opportunist with football like all other politicians are...which pretty much answers all comers on his football affiliation. Wears an Eveerton badge and sits at Anfield in a Liverpool scarf.

All opportunism.

There was a time when local politicians were all over football clubs, and the Tories were all over Liverpool FC, as a matter of fact. Locally they went together like cheese and onion once upon a time and they were serious about it. Now it's all presentation and kidology...including Corbyn's "Arsenal credentials".

 

[tsubaki]

Are they more expensive? From my understanding of free schools, the only money that has gone into them has been related to capital expenditure (new buildings etc.), but there seems less evidence that they are operationally more expensive than state run schools. Happy to be pointed in that direction though.

Three times as expensive as was predicted, and nearly a billion pounds spent on lawyers apparently:

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-free-schools/

Never mind the cost though, it’s “innovative”.

 

[zzr45]

Three times as expensive as was predicted, and nearly a billion pounds spent on lawyers apparently:

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-free-schools/

Never mind the cost though, it’s “innovative”.

Yeah innovation is for mugs!

https://www.evertonfreeschool.com/impact/success-stories/

No impact on people’s lives whatsoever...

 

[Number_25]

Yeah innovation is for mugs!

https://www.evertonfreeschool.com/impact/success-stories/

No impact on people’s lives whatsoever...

Where's the profit motive in education?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's quite funny to think that maintaining ideology is a re-emerging concept, given the fact that our country was recently implicit in the deaths of over one million Iraqis on the basis of securing Western interests in finite natural resources.

But anyway...

I haven't looked for awhile, but this was a hot-topic a couple of years ago during the Cameron era. I remember reading a paper that concluded that the idea of so-callled free schools being able to lower costs whilst maintaining or increasing educational quality to be a proven falsehood.

That being said, I have no problem with being openly ideological on matters of education and health. I don't believe that the neo-liberal consensus of allowing free-markets to grow in every aspect of our lives is a healthy prospect. We have to accept that in some instances, there is little profit motive - and in those instances the state should step in and provide said services.

Education is one of them.

Edit: I'll also add that your ad-hominem attacks are indicative of someone with strong, dogmatic, ideological views. Stop pretending otherwise.

We're all dogmatic on here, I wouldn't ever pretend otherwise. I do think it is sound practice to at least try and be evidence based when you make your opinions however. I just don't see much of that in evidence in politics today. As I stated, there seems to be a huge amount of variance in the performance of schools across the UK, with the management of those individual schools seemingly far more influential than whether they're a free school or a state school. I appreciate that "What do we want? Better management" isn't a very catchy slogan to fit onto a placard though.

Three times as expensive as was predicted, and nearly a billion pounds spent on lawyers apparently:

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/revealed-the-hidden-cost-of-free-schools/

Never mind the cost though, it’s “innovative”.

Yes, and as Richmond himself states, most of that is on capital costs, or were you expecting a new school to be built for free? Surely if you're comparing apples with apples, the only way to do so is to compare operating costs for a state school and a free school?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Where's the profit motive in education?

Oh come on, you're not that naive are you? So you're saying that only the state can do anything at all without a profit motive? Seriously? All the charities and other non-profit organisations that aren't in any way related to the state are fabrications of our imagination? You're falling into the trap of thinking that the only possible noble and just way of delivering anything is via the government. It's not only very out dated, but I'd argue also very dangerous.

 

[zzr45]

Where's the profit motive in education?

In Private Education one assumes. As Bruce has said, you’re ignoring that a lot of Free Schools are being run as community projects and are often based on supplying education to those that struggle in the Mainstream education system.

 

[tsubaki]

Yes, and as Richmond himself states, most of that is on capital costs, or were you expecting a new school to be built for free? Surely if you're comparing apples with apples, the only way to do so is to compare operating costs for a state school and a free school?

Well no; a fair comparison would be costs of construction and operation of both. Given why free schools are set up and the way school budgets work (ie most of it goes on staff) I am amazed why you or anyone apart from Toby Young* would think they’d ever be cheaper than a standard comprehensive.

* someone else paid a fortune by the state