Current Affairs The Labour Party

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Of course. I've no idea what a chef earns, but you'd hope it wasn't minimum wage. The data industry that labels and classifies images for AI training to occur is undoubtedly a disgrace in many ways, but to the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of that work is done in very low wage countries rather than in the UK/US. With the building management stuff, that will, as you say, be contracted out to the firm that manages the property (assuming it's a sell and lease back arrangement). Even that's no guarantee of poor conditions however. The average wage for a cleaner at a WeWork is roughly twice the US minimum wage, for instance.


The point i'm making is more that the companies who the likes of Facebook etc (and the banks and almost any service industry) will be incentivized to the point where the FM companies (who are no saints and know exactly what they're doing) are paying people an absolute minimum, forcing them to buy and launder their own uniforms, using contracts that give them no security or protection in their work in case of sickness etc and the reason for this is 1. So their shareholders can cream off some more and 2. So the customer can cut cost/make a little bit more profit and wash their hands when something goes wrong.

It's a total race to the bottom. My current job (now the writing seems to have dried up again...) is in exactly this process now. It makes me depressed to be a part of it.
 
The point i'm making is more that the companies who the likes of Facebook etc (and the banks and almost any service industry) will be incentivized to the point where the FM companies (who are no saints and know exactly what they're doing) are paying people an absolute minimum, forcing them to buy and launder their own uniforms, using contracts that give them no security or protection in their work in case of sickness etc and the reason for this is 1. So their shareholders can cream off some more and 2. So the customer can cut cost/make a little bit more profit and wash their hands when something goes wrong.

It's a total race to the bottom. My current job (now the writing seems to have dried up again...) is in exactly this process now. It makes me depressed to be a part of it.

Sorry to hear that. You're a very talented writer.
 
Good luck in the future mate. Hopefully your luck of a job(workplace) you enjoy changes.

They have a nice scheme over here where you can pay €40 and get 8 hours of career coaching from the state. I'm going for the first session of that tomorrow night, so hopefully I can figure something out. My former employer paid for me to do it privately as part my "shut up and leave quietly" deal but they got sick of me after two sessions and bascially told me they didn't hve a template for people who don't want a "normal" job... I'm feeling a little cynical this time around.
 
The point i'm making is more that the companies who the likes of Facebook etc (and the banks and almost any service industry) will be incentivized to the point where the FM companies (who are no saints and know exactly what they're doing) are paying people an absolute minimum, forcing them to buy and launder their own uniforms, using contracts that give them no security or protection in their work in case of sickness etc and the reason for this is 1. So their shareholders can cream off some more and 2. So the customer can cut cost/make a little bit more profit and wash their hands when something goes wrong.

It's a total race to the bottom. My current job (now the writing seems to have dried up again...) is in exactly this process now. It makes me depressed to be a part of it.

Agree with this. Outsourcing and sub-contracting starts off with a goal to do things more cheaply and efficiently. Always ends up with conditions and pay being squeezed. The contractor and the customer both need to make a profit so there’s no other way.

Hope the writing picks up again. Best of luck
 
I had the (dis)pleasure of being before the crash to borrow very large sums of money, after the crash I temporarily (what I thought anyhow) bought a car on my credit card thinking I would get a loan to cover it. Uh-uh, wrong answer and I ended up paying over £500 a month to service something that I should have been paying sub £300 for. Now I was good for the money and the extra I was spending could have been going to other purchases boosting the economy, instead it was going to a financial company who weren't lending to anyone to pay off their balance sheet. So I have first hand experience of what is being talked about.

I think you have misinterpreted (although easy to do with a throw away one sentence) what I'm saying about governments keeping a check on the deficit in times of financial stress. The real issue is when you drastically cut funding (austerity), my view was to slowly reduce year on year. Yes run with a moderate deficit to start with but the government should be looking to balance in a realistic timeframe and that might be rejigging priorities. Spend extra to guarantee loans etc giving confidence in the financial sector but can infrastructure spending that has only local benefits.

Once the economy is on an upward trend then you should be running at a surplus as soon as possible. We are paying £48 billion a year servicing the national debt, now this could remain a small percentage as the UK economy grows but could equally increase. Say Brexit reduces our credit rating, suddenly we pay more interest than we had previously and then with a smaller economy we have to borrow much more under the Japanese model to buy our way out of it. If that doesn't work that debt will be a large percentage of the UK's output after a few years.

We shouldn't be afraid of debt but we shouldn't be throwing caution to the wind either.

I meant to reply to this earlier...

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation, and pleased that you seem to have recovered. As a private consumer, debt can be terrifying especially when economic conditions are a volatile as they've become for most ordinary people these days. It was a staple of my own upbringing.

But (and I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted your intention again) the situations that individual private debtors find themselves in have nothing whatsoever to do with, and are by no means comparable to, national borrowing and public debt.

When you owe payments for your car, you owe it in a currency and at a rate of interest over which you have no control. You cannot absorb the debt simply by lowering the rate of interest or printing the money you owe.

But this is exactly what countries which owe money in their own currencies can do, and have always done, if need be. This is why when Argentina owes creditors in US Dollars, or when Greece or Italy or Spain owe creditors in Euros, it is a serious problem, but why when Japan or Britain or America owes bondholders in Yen or Sterling or Dollars, it is not.

Slashing interest rates (now literally negative in many countries) and printing money (or more accurately, electronically creating credits aka 'Quantitative Easing') is what central banks all around the world have done in response to the crash. At first, strictly as an emergency measure but now increasingly as a matter of standard procedure, which they have very reluctantly adopted due to governments' irresponsible refusal to borrow and spend - which would restore sanity to interest rates and generate actually productive growth rather than inflating asset bubbles with invented quantitative easing money.

Of course, when countries simply print money, there is always a risk of inflation. We are all taught about Weimar, for instance. But central banks today have much better ways of measuring inflation than the central banks of 1920s (which had only just come into existence). And, a far the bigger threat to the economy at present is actually deflation, precisely because of the Eurozone governments and the UK conservatives/coalitions' policy of deliberately contracting economic growth, at the height of the worst recession in 80 years.

That said, we have seen staggering inflation in certain limited categories, namely equity markets (ie: share prices) and real estate, which are very deliberately excluded from conventional measures of inflation (The thinking is, to put it crudely, that you can print as much money as you like so long it is hoarded offshore or in stocks and luxury flats by the ultra-rich, and so long as it never trickles down to ordinary people because this actually would stimulate demand and raise consumer prices). And this systematic distortion of global asset prices, which has emerged entirely because governments have slashed borrowing and spending - which we are all trained to think of as prudent because we do the same when we have trouble meeting our car loans - will be the cause of the next great financial crash, far bigger than the last, and with far more lasting effects because central banks now no longer have any tools to fight it with.

Anyhow.

Thinking about national debt or even corporate debt in terms of what households encounter during hard times is absurd. The gulf in the scale and function of debt is so vast as to defy even the vaguest comparisons. Any corporation more sophisticated than a neighbourhood grocery store requires regular access to credit to meet day to day obligations. The same is even more true for banks and more true still for governments. What truly broke global capitalism in 2008 was not the US real estate bubble (this was a proximate cause, but not the death blow) but when the paper markets froze (essentially day-to-day lending between banks). Capitalism cannot survive even for hours without borrowing and lending - and that is what caused the 2008 heart attack.

So, you might not have meant it in this way, exactly, but your car troubles have absolutely nothing in common with fiscal policy. Not ever, not even close.

In fact, sound fiscal policy hinges on governments behaving in precisely the opposite way of (aka 'counter-cyclical fiscal policy: https://blogs.imf.org/2017/04/19/five-keys-to-a-smart-fiscal-policy/)

But, politicians understand that framing government policy in terms of household economics is an extremely effective means of channeling wealth from the public to rentiers and oligarchs, because as you've just demonstrated it is a story that resonates with and reaffirms the hardships that everyday people experience after a crash, even if the comparison is nonsensical. This is the narrative that the cynics in the Conservative Party seized upon (with the backing of the liberal democrats, who, to be fair, went along less out of malicious cunning than a genuinely childish and idealised misunderstanding of how markets actually work).

And that is why there is a growing consensus, not among the loony left or momentum, but finance types, the self-proclaimed grownups in the room, that policies like what Labour and Javid are calling for are exactly what is needed!!! to restore interest rates, stimulate consumer demand, and ease off the extremely reckless reliance on printing money: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/11/06/1573068343000/Is-it-time-for-a-shift-in-fiscal-rules--/

Of course, mostly for matters of taste, they will never support Corbyn (at least not publicly), but before Javid came along (and there is real doubt that he will be given the authority to deliver), Labour was the only party in Britain that A) understood and B) had a plan to implement sound fiscal policy.

Finally, investing in local infrastructure is exactly what governments should be doing when there is a recession. The knock-on effects in terms of employement and productivity are unparalleled, and Britain has the poorest infrastructure and transit in Europe by some distance, bar perhaps Germany (which clings to idiotic fiscal limits of its own).

Every government in the world should maintain a list of projects to be funded as soon as a recession is looming - instead, in coalition Britain, we had a de facto list of programmes and projects to eliminate or attack beyond recognition, and that lasting harm from that approach is beyond obvious to all but the most credulous of those who 'identify' as free-market liberals.
 
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I meant to reply to this earlier...

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation, and pleased that you seem to have recovered. As a private consumer, debt can be terrifying especially when economic conditions are a volatile as they've become for most ordinary people these days. It was a staple of my own upbringing.

But (and I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted your intention again) the situations that individual private debtors find themselves in have nothing whatsoever to do with, and are by no means comparable to, national borrowing and public debt.

When you owe payments for your car, you owe it in a currency and at a rate of interest over which you have no control. You cannot absorb the debt simply by lowering the rate of interest or printing the money you owe.

But this is exactly what countries which owe money in their own currencies can do, and have always done, if need be. This is why when Argentina owes creditors in US Dollars, or when Greece or Italy or Spain owe creditors in Euros, it is a serious problem, but why when Japan or Britain or America owes bondholders in Yen or Sterling or Dollars, it is not.

Slashing interest rates (now literally negative in many countries) and printing money (or more accurately, electronically creating credits aka 'Quantitative Easing') is what central banks all around the world have done in response to the crash. At first, strictly as an emergency measure but now increasingly as a matter of standard procedure, which they have very reluctantly adopted due to governments' irresponsible refusal to borrow and spend - which would restore sanity to interest rates and generate actually productive growth rather than inflating asset bubbles with invented quantitative easing money.

Of course, when countries simply print money, there is always a risk of inflation. We are all taught about Weimar, for instance. But central banks today have much better ways of measuring inflation than the central banks of 1920s (which had only just come into existence). And, a far the bigger threat to the economy at present is actually deflation, precisely because of the Eurozone governments and the UK conservatives/coalitions' policy of deliberately contracting economic growth, at the height of the worst recession in 80 years.

That said, we have seen staggering inflation in certain limited categories, namely equity markets (ie: share prices) and real estate, which are very deliberately excluded from conventional measures of inflation (The thinking is, to put it crudely, that you can print as much money as you like so long it is hoarded offshore or in stocks and luxury flats by the ultra-rich, and so long as it never trickles down to ordinary people because this actually would stimulate demand and raise consumer prices). And this systematic distortion of global asset prices, which has emerged entirely because governments have slashed borrowing and spending - which we are all trained to think of as prudent because we do the same when we have trouble meeting our car loans - will be the cause of the next great financial crash, far bigger than the last, and with far more lasting effects because central banks now no longer have any tools to fight it with.

Anyhow.

Thinking about national debt or even corporate debt in terms of what households encounter during hard times is absurd. The gulf in the scale and function of debt is so vast as to defy even the vaguest comparisons. Any corporation more sophisticated than a neighbourhood grocery store requires regular access to credit to meet day to day obligations. The same is even more true for banks and more true still for governments. What truly broke global capitalism in 2008 was not the US real estate bubble (this was a proximate cause, but not the death blow) but when the paper markets froze (essentially day-to-day lending between banks). Capitalism cannot survive even for hours without borrowing and lending - and that is what caused the 2008 heart attack.

So, you might not have meant it in this way, exactly, but your car troubles have absolutely nothing in common with fiscal policy. Not ever, not even close.

In fact, sound fiscal policy hinges on governments behaving in precisely the opposite way of (aka 'counter-cyclical fiscal policy: https://blogs.imf.org/2017/04/19/five-keys-to-a-smart-fiscal-policy/)

But, politicians understand that framing government policy in terms of household economics is an extremely effective means of channeling wealth from the public to rentiers and oligarchs, because as you've just demonstrated it is a story that resonates with and reaffirms the hardships that everyday people experience after a crash, even if the comparison is nonsensical. This is the narrative that the cynics in the Conservative Party seized upon (with the backing of the liberal democrats, who, to be fair, went along less out of malicious cunning than a genuinely childish and idealised misunderstanding of how markets actually work).

And that is why there is a growing consensus, not among the loony left or momentum, but finance types, the self-proclaimed grownups in the room, that policies like what Labour and Javid are calling for are exactly what is needed!!! to restore interest rates, stimulate consumer demand, and ease off the extremely reckless reliance on printing money: https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2019/11/06/1573068343000/Is-it-time-for-a-shift-in-fiscal-rules--/

Of course, mostly for matters of taste, they will never support Corbyn (at least not publicly), but before Javid came along (and there is real doubt that he will be given the authority to deliver), Labour was the only party in Britain that A) understood and B) had a plan to implement sound fiscal policy.

Finally, investing in local infrastructure is exactly what governments should be doing when there is a recession. The knock-on effects in terms of employement and productivity are unparalleled, and Britain has the poorest infrastructure and transit in Europe by some distance, bar perhaps Germany (which clings to idiotic fiscal limits of its own).

Every government in the world should maintain a list of projects to be funded as soon as a recession is looming - instead, in coalition Britain, we had a de facto list of programmes and projects to eliminate or attack beyond recognition, and that lasting harm from that approach is beyond obvious to all but the most credulous of those who 'identify' as free-market liberals.

Yes I believe you have misunderstood again by being way too focused on one part of my post and applying it to the rest. At no stage did I say use my personal situation as a blueprint to scale up and use as how we deal with the countries finances which is what you are kind of implying above(?)

I used that car finance example to basically agree with what you (and the expert Mr Koo that you sent a podcast link), that if you are suddenly totally fixed on the balance sheet and borrowing stops then the economy will retract quicker and deeper. Which again you have put above in relation to the 2008 crash. In my scenario it meant my spending power that would have helped other retailers was down by around £300 a month. Not everyone would have found themselves in that rubbish position but you can probably times that by thousands and then millions more that will tighten their belts to be able to weather any storm. So it's not hard to see why an economy tanks in those situations.

I don't disagree with you that by the government spending more and running a deficit in times of crisis will help the economy recover faster. I totally get that. Where my viewpoint differs is that this should not be an open chequebook with scant regard to the national debt. The risks are too great if it goes wrong, although that in itself is quite small, as it's unlikely that a country with the output of the UK will go bust if managed correctly.
 
....so after Corbyn, there are suggestions the Labour Party will appoint Angela Raynor as the new leader. An ex-Unison official. Seems like being a shop-steward is a requirement to be a Labour MP.
 
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