Current Affairs The Labour Party

[abelard]

Yes, but it's now 2019 - the Tories are as wide open as never before. Cameron in 2015 was a mountain to climb for Milliband - May in 2017 and Johnson in 2019 are comparative molehills due to the turmoil they've went through.

Also, when you say moderate, I have to stress I'm not saying Labour should be absolutely dead centre with their political position. They should be centre-left - their focus should always be to the left. That's what they exist for. No, I'm simply saying they shouldn't extreme left.

But when expressed in such abstract terms, categories like 'centre left', 'left', or 'extreme left' don't actually mean anything. They have to be grounded in policy terms, and relative to what voters actually want.

Renationalising the railways for instance is overwhelmingly popular, even among Tory voters. If the concept of a 'centre' is going to have any meaning at all, then it surely has to reflect this?

But you want us to keep believing that it's doing that which is overwhelmingly popular in the eyes of both major parties' supporters which is 'extreme' - while doing that which is extremely unpopular but in the interests of the people who own newspapers is 'moderate'.

Politics just isn't like that outside the media bubble.

And, more relevant still, if you're someone like Ed Miliband, doing what the Telegraph considers 'moderate' still isn't enough to avoid being (literally!) branded a 'threat to national security'... so why compromise and rely upon good faith from people who are going to portray you as Che Guevara no matter what you actually propose? Even as those same compromises are what prompt the people you want to reach to abandon politics altogether?

Why keep playing a game which by definition you can only lose?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Also, when you say moderate, I have to stress I'm not saying Labour should be absolutely dead centre with their political position. They should be centre-left - their focus should always be to the left. That's what they exist for. No, I'm simply saying they shouldn't extreme left.

You have to be careful when you say that, needs to be qualified with extreme left as in comparison to what we have seen in British politics for the last 50 years. I keep getting picked up on that...

 

[The binman chronicles]

What were the implications of not going to war then?

Honestly you don't want me to go into full details of this, the missed UN resolutions, the blocking of the inspectors, the further destabilising of the region, the use of chemical weapons, the reported deaths of hundreds of thousands of children due to lack of medicine and food despite Iraq being able to buy these - however they wanted to make a point against sanctions. And just to top it off that there is little point driving terrorists out of one country if they can be harboured and set up shop in another failed state.

It will bore me, bore you and it won't change your mind in the slightest because you have already seen the outcome.

 

[Tubey]

Thats a fair analysis. The problem is, in all honesty that the Blairites (and other centrists groups) have fetishised what Blair did in office, particularly at the end, to such an extent that they have lost site of the broader principles of what he stood for in the mid 90's and how he built a winning formula. They seem to want to win an unwinnable argument, that the party Blair left (rather than the one he built) is the path to victory. They are a very embittered group of people who remain too obsessed with settling scores rather than winning an election within the context of 2019.

As a Corbyn "supporter" (albeit a critical one) it's very unlikely had any of a number of Blairite characters, had dropped the snide and ridiculous plotting and adopted Blairs method from the mid 90's it's unlikely we'd have been able to hold on with Corbyn as leader.

That is completely spot on. They went to civil war within the party - famously you had Blairites vs. Brownites and the two groups detested eachother long before Brown took power.

Strangely, they're all called Blairites now, regardless of whether they actually where or not, and Brown's failings at the end are bunched together with Blair's overall tenure.

People seem to think I'm calling for Blairism again now. I'm actually not. I'm calling for something left of Blair but very much right of Corbyn, simply so that Labour can attract enough people to vote for them and achieve what should be the aim of any party - gaining power to make a difference.

For me, it shouldn't matter that you can't nationalise everything at once; it just matters that you can start making a difference by being in the position to do so. That's all I ever call for - pragmatism over pure ideology. Don't promise to ban private schools because by doing so it makes you less likely to be in a position to help the people suffering because of Universal Credit.

 

[Tubey]

Tom Watson gone - a shame but the right decision given his involvement with "Nick" etc. and the fact he is a fish out of water in the current Labour party.

 

[Blue 1]

Good riddance to the Paedofinder General. Perhaps now Labour can have a deputy leader that actually wants them to win the election.

 

[magicjuan]

Good riddance to the Paedofinder General. Perhaps now Labour can have a deputy leader that actually wants them to win the election.

This ^^^

 

[tsubaki]

Tom Watson gone - a shame but the right decision given his involvement with "Nick" etc. and the fact he is a fish out of water in the current Labour party.

Not really. It is a shame he has resigned, but then again he did actively try to get rid of three of the four Labour leaders during his 18 years as an MP. I just hope he leaves it at that resignation letter.

Harvey Proctor probably feels a bit cheated tonight though.

 

[Methuselah]

That is completely spot on. They went to civil war within the party - famously you had Blairites vs. Brownites and the two groups detested eachother long before Brown took power.

Strangely, they're all called Blairites now, regardless of whether they actually where or not, and Brown's failings at the end are bunched together with Blair's overall tenure.

People seem to think I'm calling for Blairism again now. I'm actually not. I'm calling for something left of Blair but very much right of Corbyn, simply so that Labour can attract enough people to vote for them and achieve what should be the aim of any party - gaining power to make a difference.

For me, it shouldn't matter that you can't nationalise everything at once; it just matters that you can start making a difference by being in the position to do so. That's all I ever call for - pragmatism over pure ideology. Don't promise to ban private schools because by doing so it makes you less likely to be in a position to help the people suffering because of Universal Credit.

Tubey, 'something left of Blair' is the Conservative Party.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Tom Watson gone - a shame but the right decision given his involvement with "Nick" etc. and the fact he is a fish out of water in the current Labour party.

@davek is going to be pretty gutted about this.

 

[The binman chronicles]

@davek is going to be pretty gutted about this.

About as distraught as Son. Minus the tears for public show.

 

[davek]

@davek is going to be pretty gutted about this.

 

[tsubaki]

I see Williamson has demonstrated why they were so right to kick him out.

 

[davids]

...Ian Austin the latest MP to leave the Labour Party, apparently he has no plans to join the Independent Group.

Just to plan his revenge!

 

[Eggs]

Just to plan his revenge!

...interesting to hear John McDonnell say he’s ‘employed’ by the Conservative Party. If there is anything to support that, it will take the steam out of the situation.