Current Affairs The Labour Party

[nsno-chris]

So then every poll that has the Tories crushing it at 40% is ridiculous as well then? Glad I can relax now.

For what it's worth, all polling on Labour's individual policies show this trend. Here's one from back in 2017 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-manifesto-poll-voters-back-policies-jeremy-corbyn-latest-a7731536.html?amp

Don't know why people would be surprised that populist policies are popular with the people.

I literally don’t care

but your post was ludicrous to state that poll is what the British people think

 

[Eggs]

Thank God they aren't. The last thing this country needs is someone trying to buy Murdoch's loyalty again.

....ah, the old chestnut. New Labour did lots more to win power for so long. Rather than dismiss them, this lot should analyse them.

Momentum Labour are nothing if they are unelectable. I remember the rise of loony left Militant Labour in the 80s. They had a strong base in Liverpool, yet the people of Liverpool returned a Liberal Council for many years. Even politically savvy voters in Liverpool don’t like that type of politics.

 

[dannyboy]

The policies are popular individually.

But when all taken collectively people see it as 'pie in the sky' - they all have costs and risks. And that's the perception - that Labour don't know how to cost properly, they don't rein themselves in when they go hard left; they just spend and hope for the best.

Corbyn himself once said he'd spend £500bn and just tax the rich and let the better economy pay for everything, so it's hard to claim that perception isn't wrong...

Completely agree. The Tories have created that perception and not enough has been done to challenge it by Labour. Johnson commits to 20,000 police officers: great idea, Labour do the same and you've got someone like Diane Abbott bumbling her way through an interview coming across like she can't count to 10.

 

[dannyboy]

I literally don’t care

but your post was ludicrous to state that poll is what the British people think

If a poll isn't commissioned to find out what people think then what is the point? It's a completely normal sample size.

 

[arminisgod]

errr...if thats the reasoning you are using you need to look at the massive swings lib dems have had in some council elections

its the labour thread... the 2 results show Labour will be demolished in the GE

 

[neil999]

its the labour thread... the 2 results show Labour will be demolished in the GE

While that might happen, Council elections don't reflect general elections

 

[dannyboy]

While that might happen, Council elections don't reflect general elections

Labour had an awful night in the council elections in 2017. Few weeks later it was a completely different story.

 

[nsno-chris]

If a poll isn't commissioned to find out what people think then what is the point? It's a completely normal sample size.

and that’s why polls are ridiculous

 

[tsubaki]

....ah, the old chestnut. New Labour did lots more to win power for so long. Rather than dismiss them, this lot should analyse them.

Momentum Labour are nothing if they are unelectable. I remember the rise of loony left Militant Labour in the 80s. They had a strong base in Liverpool, yet the people of Liverpool returned a Liberal Council for many years. Even politically savvy voters in Liverpool don’t like that type of politics.

You appear to be labouring under twin delusions that Murdoch’s support wasn’t vital to Blair (it was, hence the extent he was willing to go to in order to keep it), and that Momentum are like Militant (when they really aren’t).

 

[abelard]

I am not in Momentum and never will be - and I am not a die-hard Corbynista either.

It is eternally exasperating the extent to which Corbyn struggles to articulate Labour's new agenda (before the Election coverage regulations kick in that is), and how passive he can be in response to the tabloid media's predictable performative shrieks and howls. If someone else could deliver the same policy agenda more assertively, I would sign up to vote for them here and now.

But the policy agenda that Corbyn's election has facilitated is overwhelmingly popular; long, long overdue; and most importantly, the only offering from any of the British parties with even a tenuous grasp of rudimentary macroeconomics. One only has to look at the vast intellectual void that is the Liberal Democrats to see how vapid and ill-informed the alternatives are these days. Their brains ceased all motor-function in 1995.

I suspect most Labour members who back the policy shift and the return to reason that Corbyn enabled (and who are thus presumed to be idiotic 16-year old Momentum cultists) would really have preferred it to be someone else's turn to represent the left - but the past is the past, and so be it.

Still, after, 2017, he deserves another election - and if he loses again, he will rightfully be replaced before the hour.

What is not negotiable, however, are the policies that he represents.

In any case, it is always instructive to see how well @tsubaki understands Labour history and British history - and how poorly informed and stubbornly ignorant the rote talking points that are mindlessly recited here against him always turn out to be, which deflate upon the slightest scrutiny.

 

[Eggs]

You appear to be labouring under twin delusions that Murdoch’s support wasn’t vital to Blair (it was, hence the extent he was willing to go to in order to keep it), and that Momentum are like Militant (when they really aren’t).

....getting the press on board was vital, but New Labour was a strategically clever machine. i don’t get the impression Momentum Labour has anywhere near the same political nous, if it did Corbyn would’ve been moved on a while ago.

Labour needs to appeal to the many not the few.

 

[tsubaki]

....getting the press on board was vital, but New Labour was a strategically clever machine. i don’t get the impression Momentum Labour has anywhere near the same political nous, if it did Corbyn would’ve been moved on a while ago.

Labour needs to appeal to the many not the few.

I honestly struggle to see how getting hundreds of thousands more members, millions more votes and putting the finances of the party into the black for the first time in years doesn’t qualify as having at least a bit of political nous.

 

[tsubaki]

I am not in Momentum and never will be - and I am not a die-hard Corbynista either.

It is eternally exasperating the extent to which Corbyn struggles to articulate Labour's new agenda (before the Election coverage regulations kick in that is), and how passive he can be in response to the tabloid media's predictable performative shrieks and howls. If someone else could deliver the same policy agenda more assertively, I would sign up to vote for them here and now.

But the policy agenda that Corbyn's election has facilitated is overwhelmingly popular; long, long overdue; and most importantly, the only offering from any of the British parties with even a tenuous grasp of rudimentary macroeconomics. One only has to look at the vast intellectual void that is the Liberal Democrats to see how vapid and ill-informed the alternatives are these days. Their brains ceased all motor-function in 1995.

I suspect most Labour members who back the policy shift and the return to reason that Corbyn enabled (and who are thus presumed to be idiotic 16-year old Momentum cultists) would really have preferred it to be someone else's turn to represent the left - but the past is the past, and so be it.

Still, after, 2017, he deserves another election - and if he loses again, he will rightfully be replaced before the hour.

What is not negotiable, however, are the policies that he represents.

In any case, it is always instructive to see how well @tsubaki understands Labour history and British history - and how poorly informed and stubbornly ignorant the rote talking points that are mindlessly recited here against him always turn out to be, which deflate upon the slightest scrutiny.

thanks, but as you say a lot of the criticism is just wrong

 

[degsy]

I am not in Momentum and never will be - and I am not a die-hard Corbynista either.

It is eternally exasperating the extent to which Corbyn struggles to articulate Labour's new agenda (before the Election coverage regulations kick in that is), and how passive he can be in response to the tabloid media's predictable performative shrieks and howls. If someone else could deliver the same policy agenda more assertively, I would sign up to vote for them here and now.

But the policy agenda that Corbyn's election has facilitated is overwhelmingly popular; long, long overdue; and most importantly, the only offering from any of the British parties with even a tenuous grasp of rudimentary macroeconomics. One only has to look at the vast intellectual void that is the Liberal Democrats to see how vapid and ill-informed the alternatives are these days. Their brains ceased all motor-function in 1995.

I suspect most Labour members who back the policy shift and the return to reason that Corbyn enabled (and who are thus presumed to be idiotic 16-year old Momentum cultists) would really have preferred it to be someone else's turn to represent the left - but the past is the past, and so be it.

Still, after, 2017, he deserves another election - and if he loses again, he will rightfully be replaced before the hour.

What is not negotiable, however, are the policies that he represents.

In any case, it is always instructive to see how well @tsubaki understands Labour history and British history - and how poorly informed and stubbornly ignorant the rote talking points that are mindlessly recited here against him always turn out to be, which deflate upon the slightest scrutiny.

Deserved an other chance?
The only chance he got was to keep on because nobody wanted to touch the bag of worms that was labour and the trouble that was coming down the road post the brexit vote.

 

[Eggs]

I honestly struggle to see how getting hundreds of thousands more members, millions more votes and putting the finances of the party into the black for the first time in years doesn’t qualify as having at least a bit of political nous.

...not sure about ‘the millions more voters’. They increased their share after hitting the floor. I’d love nothing more than a Labour victory, they’ll have people like me me who’ll vote for them anyway even though they don’t particularly like this version, but that won’t be enough to win.