Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

I suppose the best thing to come out of it would be the Tories decimated but Labour not having enough and finally realising that this mob aren't going to get anywhere and there needs to be a far more reasoned, less extreme approach to their politics.

I get socialism is a big thing for a lot of people on this forum, whether it's age or where you're from. It is for me, in elements. But not to the extent that these people are. And they are showing themselves to be utterly vile and hypocritical.

Sick of them. I have genuine disdain for them.

I'm sorry, are you describing the Corbynites/Momentum as extreme?

If so, please elaborate.

 

[tim cahill]

The Tories will be out of power for many years after the next GE, which I really wish was soon, but not too soon.

Think this is wishful thinking. They're ahead in the polls. I doubt they'll get a majority but I imagine they'll still be the biggest party.

 

[tim cahill]

I'm sorry. If anyone still thinks these are better than the Tories then you're entrenched in your view and it's verging on cultish.

I'm not sure how they could be worse.

 

[BlueToff]

I'm sorry, are you describing the Corbynites/Momentum as extreme?

If so, please elaborate.

He was calling them all 'comrades' the other day ffs Dave.

Yes, he's extreme. He's not far left. He's not a communist. But he is as far left a Labour leader I have witnessed in my lifetime. Then again, I was 2 when Blair got into power.

He's already gone back on his manifesto. He's screamed for a general election then turned it down. His party is a shambles full of hypocrites and MPs who have been calling their own constituents thick.

They're horrid.

 

[BlueToff]

I'm not sure how they could be worse.

I don't mean the Tories are better. I have a very low bar for the Tories. Always have and always will. I won't vote Tory. I have always, bar the last Euro elections, voted Labour.

But this version of Labour, right here, right now, is friggin awful and I want no part in it. Luckily I don't have to, because we live in a democracy.

Then again, maybe that makes me thick, or racist, or means I want homeless people to die and kids to grow up in poverty.

They've - not just Labour in this case - cried and screamed about the prorogation yet they've spent an entire morning today debating what 'democracy' is, and now have all gone off for the weekend.

 

[davek]

He was calling them all 'comrades' the other day ffs Dave.

Yes, he's extreme. He's not far left. He's not a communist. But he is as far left a Labour leader I have witnessed in my lifetime. Then again, I was 2 when Blair got into power.

He's already gone back on his manifesto. He's screamed for a general election then turned it down. His party is a shambles full of hypocrites and MPs who have been calling their own constituents thick.

They're horrid.

Well, let me give you the benefit of my experience of LP history. Corbyn is basically Old School Labour: nationalisation, mixed economy, opposition to private schools, pro-TUs etc etc. Even his opposition to nukes are old hat. As for "comrades": a term of address at LP Conference since, well, forever.

The Blair years were an abberation. The type of entryism that Militant were have supposed to have carried out in the 80s was, in fact, carried out by the neo-liberal right. The LP now is re-emerging out of that place like a kidnap victim that's escaped their captors.

 

[tim cahill]

He's already gone back on his manifesto. He's screamed for a general election then turned it down.

He's gone back on his manifesto? I'm interested in how you think he's done this.

Surely you understand why he has turned down a general election?

 

[Tubey]

The Blair years were an abberation.

They certainly were - Labour actually got elected.

 

[Tubey]

He was calling them all 'comrades' the other day ffs Dave.

Yes, he's extreme. He's not far left. He's not a communist. But he is as far left a Labour leader I have witnessed in my lifetime. Then again, I was 2 when Blair got into power.

He's already gone back on his manifesto. He's screamed for a general election then turned it down. His party is a shambles full of hypocrites and MPs who have been calling their own constituents thick.

They're horrid.

There's loads of reasons to criticise Corbyn. The bold isn't one of them.

Indeed, if he'd have fell for Johnson's trap and went for an election, that would have been a reason to criticise him, as it would have made him the dumbest person in the country.

 

[twoblue]

Solving misinformation is not done by pandering to it.

Agree in principal but everyone has a version of their own truth. Immigration isn’t a problem to me, or you, but i can accept that many think it’s gone too far over the last generation with certain areas changing beyond recognition. If only the extreme right are offering to solve it, there are a lot of moderates that are drawn towards that.

 

[The binman chronicles]

The Blair years were an abberation. The type of entryism that Militant were have supposed to have carried out in the 80s was, in fact, carried out by the neo-liberal right. The LP now is re-emerging out of that place like a kidnap victim that's escaped their captors.

They certainly were - Labour actually got elected.

First and only Labour government to last more than 6 years...I think they should go back to being held captive.

Let's face it if the Tories weren't committing massive acts of self harm Labour wouldn't be anywhere near power. Even now the best they can hope for is a progressive coalition with almost all the other parties in opposition.

 

[davek]

First and only Labour government to last more than 6 years...I think they should go back to being held captive.

Let's face it if the Tories weren't committing massive acts of self harm Labour wouldn't be anywhere near power. Even now the best they can hope for is a progressive coalition with almost all the other parties in opposition.

What's the point in being in power if you offer the same as the Tories, which by and large is what Blair did.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Agree in principal but everyone has a version of their own truth. Immigration isn’t a problem to me, or you, but i can accept that many think it’s gone too far over the last generation with certain areas changing beyond recognition. If only the extreme right are offering to solve it, there are a lot of moderates that are drawn towards that.

To an extent I agree, and one would hope that Labour would accompany their announcement with more information on not only the benefits of migration, but also how the issues associated with it can be tackled. For instance, more work to enforce minimum wage and other workplace regulations and greater efforts to prevent the exploitation of workers by criminal gangs, or a change in how local councils are funded so they're better able to respond to changes in their population (I believe at the moment, for instance, funding is determined based upon the census data, which as it's done every ten years is woefully out of date). Liberalising housing is another obvious area to address, whilst ensuring migrants are more visible and represented in the media would also go a long way towards demystifying them as some horrible 'other'.

All of these things would go some way towards countering any dog whistle racism from the Brexit Party, and you'd hope they would be taking these kind of measures alongside their policy announcement.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Well, let me give you the benefit of my experience of LP history. Corbyn is basically Old School Labour: nationalisation, mixed economy, opposition to private schools, pro-TUs etc etc. Even his opposition to nukes are old hat. As for "comrades": a term of address at LP Conference since, well, forever.

The Blair years were an abberation. The type of entryism that Militant were have supposed to have carried out in the 80s was, in fact, carried out by the neo-liberal right. The LP now is re-emerging out of that place like a kidnap victim that's escaped their captors.

All of that is true dave, in the context of Labour Party history in which you put it. It describes the party of Bevan, Atlee, Gaitskell, Wilson and all the men and women who fought for rights and opportunities and equality for the working classes. I don't see the current Labour Party in those terms. I see them as the party of protest rather than an effective opposition and I see Corbyn (a much better man than he is portrayed, as was Michael Foot) as a weak idealist manipulated by fanatics (as was Michael Foot). Corbyn can't get elected unless Labour tack more towards the centre.
As much as there is dog whistling between Johnson and the right wingers in the Tory Party, the same goes on at Labour with the old chestnuts of Public schools and fox hunting.
Written more in sadness than anger.

 

[davek]

All of that is true dave, in the context of Labour Party history in which you put it. It describes the party of Bevan, Atlee, Gaitskell, Wilson and all the men and women who fought for rights and opportunities and equality for the working classes. I don't see the current Labour Party in those terms. I see them as the party of protest rather than an effective opposition and I see Corbyn (a much better man than he is portrayed, as was Michael Foot) as a weak idealist manipulated by fanatics (as was Michael Foot). Corbyn can't get elected unless Labour tack more towards the centre.
As much as there is dog whistling between Johnson and the right wingers in the Tory Party, the same goes on at Labour with the old chestnuts of Public schools and fox hunting.
Written more in sadness than anger.

The current LP is constuted that way because not enough of the Blairites have left the party under Corbyn. That has to change once the next election is over.