Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Charlie Sweet]

Ha Ha Ha.

Find another party.

No chance. I'm perfectly able to argue my case against people wanting to just blame big business for the evils of this world.

The UK has probably the most broken Tory party in history leading it at the moment off the edge of a cliff. This should feel like the mid 90s when it was simply a waiting game for Labour to come in. Yet its anything but.

You cannot lead a government from the lunatic left. The very fact that much of middle England is more scared of a Corbyn government than a no-deal Brexit should be a wake up call.

In life you cannot get everything you want. There has to be compromise and pragmatism. It's impossible to get a majority government without winning over so called middle class voters.

In power a Labour government can make a positive difference. The sad thing is after a whole career on the fringes the likes of Corbyn seem to prefer acting as if they are a pressure group rather than an aspiring government in waiting.

And I say all that as a proud Irish republican so Corbyn's past with Sinn Fein etc doesnt sid badly with me at all. It's the sense that he has no idea of the real world and a fear that, let loose in Downing St with his far left cronies, he would be downright dangerous.

 

[davek]

No chance. I'm perfectly able to argue my case against people wanting to just blame big business for the evils of this world.

The UK has probably the most broken Tory party in history leading it at the moment off the edge of a cliff. This should feel like the mid 90s when it was simply a waiting game for Labour to come in. Yet its anything but.

You cannot lead a government from the lunatic left. The very fact that much of middle England is more scared of a Corbyn government than a no-deal Brexit should be a wake up call.

In life you cannot get everything you want. There has to be compromise and pragmatism. It's impossible to get a majority government without winning over so called middle class voters.

In power a Labour government can make a positive difference. The sad thing is after a whole career on the fringes the likes of Corbyn seem to prefer acting as if they are a pressure group rather than an aspiring government in waiting.

And I say all that as a proud Irish republican so Corbyn's past with Sinn Fein etc doesnt sid badly with me at all. It's the sense that he has no idea of the real world and a fear that, let loose in Downing St with his far left cronies, he would be downright dangerous.

The LP you want is not the LP at all, it's a pro-business, market worshipping Tory Party in all but name.

The LP as you describe it was one constructed by infiltrators and entryists - people who have no socialist values or principles. They took over the party in the 80s, but their time has gone. It's over for that neo-liberal circus in the party now.

 

[Billy Dean]

 

[tsubaki]

No doubt to be followed in a few moments by the usual suspects coming out with "this cynical betrayal of hard-working Labour voters in the North by an out of touch extremist etc etc etc etc"

 

[Charlie Sweet]

The LP you want is not the LP at all, it's a pro-business, market worshipping Tory Party in all but name.

The LP as you describe it was one constructed by infiltrators and entryists - people who have no socialist values or principles. They took over the party in the 80s, but their time has gone. It's over for that neo-liberal circus in the party now.

Ha ha and just pretend the last 40 years havent happened? Dave you cant just go back to 1978 ya know. So me and others like me have been "infiltrators" for the last 35/40 years?! Jesus wept!

It's just being a realist to embrace the free market. Now more than ever big business is forced to consider social issues. Why not work with that rather than sounding like a t**t and wanting to create a little version of North Korea in Knowsley?

A hard left government will never be elected in the UK. Either accept a left of centre position that can gain traction or hand power to the Tories. It's that simple.

 

[Billy Dean]

No doubt to be followed in a few moments by the usual suspects coming out with "this cynical betrayal of hard-working Labour voters in the North by an out of touch extremist etc etc etc etc"

Endless opportunities to move the goalposts with this.

 

[tsubaki]

Ha ha and just pretend the last 40 years havent happened? Dave you cant just go back to 1978 ya know. So me and others like me have been "infiltrators" for the last 35/40 years?! Jesus wept!

It's just being a realist to embrace the free market. Now more than ever big business is forced to consider social issues. Why not work with that rather than sounding like a t**t and wanting to create a little version of North Korea in Knowsley?

A hard left government will never be elected in the UK. Either accept a left of centre position that can gain traction or hand power to the Tories. It's that simple.

Yes, I hear they are doing that.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Yes, I hear they are doing that.

Course they are and a million times more relevant than back in the 70s where @davek still resides.

 

[tsubaki]

Course they are and a million times more relevant than back in the 70s where @davek still resides.

I know, in fact only this morning I was thinking how seriously big business is dealing with the housing crisis in London.

 

[LEONARD]

That Len McCluskey gets right up my nose.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I know, in fact only this morning I was thinking how seriously big business is dealing with the housing crisis in London.

So my real life experience of Momentum councillors is that I'm involved with an investment fund behind a big regeneration project in South London. It meets the mayor's affordable housing targets and is genuinely something that the area has been crying out for since the 90s.

Momentum get a firm hold at last year's elections and all of a sudden are demanding the fund lowers its 10% profit margin or it's dead in the water.

Now the project targets have already been slashed as the fund has a green/social edge to it in order to pass it's own criteria but below 10% just cant happen with all the risk and everything that's still involved.

End result is the fund will put its money elsewhere and leave the Momentum councillors (majority havent or dont hold down a proper job) to whistle to their idea that a Corbyn government will pump the council full of cash and they can do it directly. Their ignorance and arrogance is just astounding and have no concept of risk/return.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No doubt to be followed in a few moments by the usual suspects coming out with "this cynical betrayal of hard-working Labour voters in the North by an out of touch extremist etc etc etc etc"

If the Labour membership decide everything, what's the point of him? This is the man, lest we forget, who demanded to be the leader of any coalition against the Tories.

 

[tsubaki]

So my real life experience of Momentum councillors is that I'm involved with an investment fund behind a big regeneration project in South London. It meets the mayor's affordable housing targets and is genuinely something that the area has been crying out for since the 90s.

Momentum get a firm hold at last year's elections and all of a sudden are demanding the fund lowers its 10% profit margin or it's dead in the water.

Now the project targets have already been slashed as the fund has a green/social edge to it in order to pass it's own criteria but below 10% just cant happen with all the risk and everything that's still involved.

End result is the fund will put its money elsewhere and leave the Momentum councillors (majority havent or dont hold down a proper job) to whistle to their idea that a Corbyn government will pump the council full of cash and they can do it directly. Their ignorance and arrogance is just astounding and have no concept of risk/return.

This would be in Lewisham, then?

 

[tsubaki]

If the Labour membership decide everything, what's the point of him? This is the man, lest we forget, who demanded to be the leader of any coalition against the Tories.

... and if he said he'd ignore them, you'd be here claiming he was ignoring his pro-Remain membership.

Also, how on earth is someone saying that they will put aside their own beliefs to represent those of other people a bad thing for someone who wants to lead a coalition of disparate parties against the Tories?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

... and if he said he'd ignore them, you'd be here claiming he was ignoring his pro-Remain membership.

Also, how on earth is someone saying that they will put aside their own beliefs to represent those of other people a bad thing for someone who wants to lead a coalition of disparate parties against the Tories?

He's an enigma isn't he? A man of such conviction that he voted against his own party goodness knows how many times, but on an issue as divisive as Brexit he sits on the fence.