Current Affairs The Labour Party

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roydo said:
Just younger. Class is irrelevant to most youngsters. One poster routinely bangs on about a class war and class traitors. but outside the narrow echo chamber of the Labour membership, there isnt a class issue with normal folk. Just people.
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Seems more graduate/non graduate tbh at the moment. Corbyn pre his eu mess appealed more to urban graduates, but he's turning them off over Europe.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Seems more graduate/non graduate tbh at the moment. Corbyn pre his eu mess appealed more to urban graduates, but he's turning them off over Europe.
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Yup.

This is who Labour most appeals to now: "imagine you're a newly qualified teacher from the home counties who has come from a fairly modest middle class background - you've been to university but you're struggling on a low wage, can't afford a place of your own etc"

Or did, until Brexit came to a head. But they are still probably in much better shape among young Remainers than among old Leavers.

If they lose another election, it will be because they have failed to win back their traditional postindustrial base, in places like Mansfield, Middlesborough, Stoke etc. It would of course then be time for a different leader, though obviously not a return to the excesses of Blairism.

This is why Labour has struggled so mightily with Brexit, and why, for all the media derangement over Corbyn, it is unlikely that a different leader would have pursued a radically different approach until now.
 
catcherintherye said:
Yes fair point. There was certainly those thoughts and there has always been an Atlantist tradition within the Labour Party too (Blair didn't invent it). I would say Blair went over and above that though, which was his problem really. He never looked like a leader who had reluctantly gone along with things because practically he had too, but rather he placed himself at the vanguard of the movement, more of a war monger than the war mongers. When the war turned out badly, and the evidence became more spurious it was very hard to turn back from that. For the rest of the time, he looks to have continued to push it.

What we agree upon is it's a shame the rest of the program (good and bad) cannot be evaluated by all sides really. Lots of Blair's domestic agenda was very progressive. The stuff they did in Glasgow was a miracle really. The rejuvenation of City Centre's as well. How places like Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle, Cardiff, Leeds etc were turned around was fantastic really.

I do think he contributes to that though. His followers even more so. That he doesn't just concede on the war and go back to the domestic policy surprises me.
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If it wasn't for the Iraq war the Blair/Brown years would be looked back upon in a different light. Whist they embraced the market economy at least they plowed a lot back into the public sector/education etc. For the first time in decades new school buildings were being built. Compassionate tories I guess?
 
Land for the Many
A report to the Labour Party, June 2019
☰ Menu

Land for the Many: Changing the way our fundamental asset is used, owned and governed is an independent report commissioned by the Labour Party.
This report aims to put land where it belongs: at the heart of political debate and discussion. It proposes radical but practical changes in the way land in the UK is used and governed.
Read the report online, or download the PDF.
 
orchard said:
Land for the Many
A report to the Labour Party, June 2019
☰ Menu

Land for the Many: Changing the way our fundamental asset is used, owned and governed is an independent report commissioned by the Labour Party.
This report aims to put land where it belongs: at the heart of political debate and discussion. It proposes radical but practical changes in the way land in the UK is used and governed.
Read the report online, or download the PDF.
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Having read the recommendations there’s some good stuff in there (more transparency about who owns what, more power over vacant land etc) some ill thought out stuff (want to help the environment, but would remove tax levies on woodlands - so would owners dispose of this leading to its destruction? Planning by the wider community) and then some baffling stuff (land to shift from being an asset, the whole first time buyers renting land from a government body, using small/medium builders to develop areas - what of economies of scale/quality fade etc)
 
zzr45 said:
Having read the recommendations there’s some good stuff in there (more transparency about who owns what, more power over vacant land etc) some ill thought out stuff (want to help the environment, but would remove tax levies on woodlands - so would owners dispose of this leading to its destruction?
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I'm not sure what you mean by remove levies - they are exempt from iht (and maybe cgt) after a couple of years. I think a lot are being bought by fund managers/wealthy individuals as a tax reduction/elimination measure and are managed in the short term, predominantly Sitka monocultures.
Felling of trees is controlled by ne/nrw etc once over 15cm at chest height. Of these, individual owners can only fell 5 cubic m/year iirc, without permission. This assumes the woodland's free of other checks, like no ancient status, sssi, tpo's.


zzr45 said:
Planning by the wider community) and then some baffling stuff (land to shift from being an asset, the whole first time buyers renting land from a government body, using small/medium builders to develop areas - what of economies of scale/quality fade etc)
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Not sure about this, but a lot of the recipients of the current government's housing schemes don't get the land it's built on, that's leased, and a tradable commodity , causing quite a few issues, no?
Further, i think it may achieve a few other things, like reducing the cost, making it less of a commodity, but can be passed on generationally, give cities more ability to enact broadscale environmental projects, like Denmark and other progressive European countries.
 
orchard said:
I'm not sure what you mean by remove levies - they are exempt from iht (and maybe cgt) after a couple of years. I think a lot are being bought by fund managers/wealthy individuals as a tax reduction/elimination measure and are managed in the short term, predominantly Sitka monocultures.
Felling of trees is controlled by ne/nrw etc once over 15cm at chest height. Of these, individual owners can only fell 5 cubic m/year iirc, without permission. This assumes the woodland's free of other checks, like no ancient status, sssi, tpo's.
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Yes, you’re right. I’m confusing the land levy and tax reductions.

orchard said:
Not sure about this, but a lot of the recipients of the current government's housing schemes don't get the land it's built on, that's leased, and a tradable commodity , causing quite a few issues, no?
Further, i think it may achieve a few other things, like reducing the cost, making it less of a commodity, but can be passed on generationally, give cities more ability to enact broadscale environmental projects, like Denmark and other progressive European countries.
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Ah, yes the whole ‘help to buy’ being based on owning a leasehold property with the land being owned by a company. I remember someone having a fee that went from say £10 per month to £100 per month (not an exact figure but similar sort of growth). Absolutely, bin them off. I’d also really scrutinise help to buy - my partner works for a law firm and spends 60% of her day working on cases where people have gone through those sort of schemes, got to the end of the term, can’t afford the balloon payment and so are turfed out - essentially it’s shorting on house supply.
 
zzr45 said:
Yes, you’re right. I’m confusing the land levy and tax reductions.


Ah, yes the whole ‘help to buy’ being based on owning a leasehold property with the land being owned by a company. I remember someone having a fee that went from say £10 per month to £100 per month (not an exact figure but similar sort of growth). Absolutely, bin them off. I’d also really scrutinise help to buy - my partner works for a law firm and spends 60% of her day working on cases where people have gone through those sort of schemes, got to the end of the term, can’t afford the balloon payment and so are turfed out - essentially it’s shorting on house supply.
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Ha, although tedious, i'm sure she'll know the pit-falls, crazy that we're backing these financially...
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's great that Brexit Party were defeated, but Forbes hardly sounds like a charmer herself so I'll keep the bunting on ice if you don't mind.
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Oh i'm sure you will along with many other Liberal (neo), its of no consequence when it matters. Just keep on ignoring what brought Brexit vote win about, and Labour with Corbyn will do just fine... In the meantime regurgitate antisemitic tropes.
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
Oh i'm sure you will along with many other Liberal (neo), its of no consequence when it matters. Just keep on ignoring what brought Brexit vote win about, and Labour with Corbyn will do just fine... In the meantime regurgitate antisemitic tropes.
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Not sure a scraped Labour victory over a party that's a few months old, after the previous Labour incumbent was kicked out for a criminal conviction is a sign of the party's vitality tbh. But sure, go Jezzer or something.
 
NilSatisOptimum said:
Standing up to the birth of fascism, Labour at the cold face as usual, given the circumstances of this by-election Peterborough was important challenge.

www.bbc.co.uk

Peterborough by-election: Labour beats Brexit Party to hold seat

Lisa Forbes is elected in Peterborough as Nigel Farage's party fails to win a first Westminster seat.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Stop being ridiculous.

I agree this was a very important by election for Labour, but the battle they had was whether their traditional supporters would put everyday labour values above their wish to leave the EU. In the end they did, and a lot of credit has to go to the local Labour volunteers for making this happen. Had Brexit won this by election it would have been a real kick in the teeth for Labour and made them think again about their position on Brexit. I think this gives them some encouragement now to come out firmly on the side of Remain.

I also believe the timing of your casual use of the term "fascist" is both disgusting and, at best, ignorant of the many sacrifices made by many nationalities to free Europe of the real fascists 7 years ago.
 
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