Current Affairs The Labour Party

[NilSatisOptimum]

Labour and Corbyn need to be clear and stop pussyfooting around in party fighting and do what is best for their members and ultimately this country.

I understood it all along.

It may not have been as simple as leave with no deal or second referendum, but Labours position was perfectly understandable, with a few brain cells or maybe wanting to actually listen to it.

I will admit that much of the mass media have made it more difficult by interrupting party members trying to explain and insisting on binary in/out replies.

However, Labour put in manifesto that they would only leave with a customs union. Simples!

Without achieving that customs union, then it would have to go back to the people with any other agreement as wouldn't be delivering on their promise. Simples!

Second general election would be needed to change that manifesto, unless of course you don't wish to honour it... Principled!

It's clear as spring water.

 

[Seathestars]

What are the Labour Party actually doing?

Remain/Leave or 2nd Ref or not, it doesn't matter because by the time May leave and a new Tory non-elected PM is in, a general election will be called after BREXIT No Deal Deadline leaving us goosed.

All this Corbyn worship is frankly embarrassing, the man has seen off 2 Tory leaders but he can sort out his own party.

He needs to go, too far left.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Listening to Lisa Nandy on the Today show this morning, and then seeing the chart @Groucho shared in the EU thread, it saddens me enormously. She rightly complains that her Wigan constituency were staunch leave supporters, but at no point during this whole affair has there seemed to be any attempt by Labour MPs whose constituencies voted to leave to articulate just what this will do to their communities and economies. I get that Labour is torn between its remain and leave camps, yet rather than take a logical approach and outlining how leaving with no deal will cause enormous harm to communities that are already suffering, they just accept that people voted to leave and that's that.

Where is the intellectual leadership?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

He needs to go, too far left.

Most Labour policy is well received, it's why he will stay. Brexit won't finish him off.

Brexit is a problem only because it's a ridiculous situation to be in.

And factor in Labour leaders can't make policy up as they go along, they have to refer to majority opinion of the party... It might be the case public opinion has changed and this might reflect what majority of Labour party decides, until they do there won't be much change from Corbyn...

 

[Groucho]

Listening to Lisa Nandy on the Today show this morning, and then seeing the chart @Groucho shared in the EU thread, it saddens me enormously. She rightly complains that her Wigan constituency were staunch leave supporters, but at no point during this whole affair has there seemed to be any attempt by Labour MPs whose constituencies voted to leave to articulate just what this will do to their communities and economies. I get that Labour is torn between its remain and leave camps, yet rather than take a logical approach and outlining how leaving with no deal will cause enormous harm to communities that are already suffering, they just accept that people voted to leave and that's that.

Where is the intellectual leadership?

The whole thing is ridiculous from start to finish.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Listening to Lisa Nandy on the Today show this morning, and then seeing the chart @Groucho shared in the EU thread, it saddens me enormously. She rightly complains that her Wigan constituency were staunch leave supporters, but at no point during this whole affair has there seemed to be any attempt by Labour MPs whose constituencies voted to leave to articulate just what this will do to their communities and economies. I get that Labour is torn between its remain and leave camps, yet rather than take a logical approach and outlining how leaving with no deal will cause enormous harm to communities that are already suffering, they just accept that people voted to leave and that's that.

Where is the intellectual leadership?

I would have thought more mps would have resigned if their constituents voted to leave but they are strongly opposed to it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The whole thing is ridiculous from start to finish.

It is mate, and no more so than in the fact that there seems to have been very little learning done over the past few years. The collective discourse seems to be getting stupider rather than smarter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I would have thought more mps would have resigned if their constituents voted to leave but they are strongly opposed to it.

There seems to be a snake oil element to it to be honest. I mean Skinner has been MP for Bolsover for practically my entire lifetime, yet all that community has to show for his representation is a Sports Direct warehouse. You can understand why people are frustrated. Our politicians (and I mean ours, not those in Brussels), have dropped the ball in a big way, and still refuse to take accountability.

 

[neil999]

There seems to be a snake oil element to it to be honest. I mean Skinner has been MP for Bolsover for practically my entire lifetime, yet all that community has to show for his representation is a Sports Direct warehouse. You can understand why people are frustrated. Our politicians (and I mean ours, not those in Brussels), have dropped the ball in a big way, and still refuse to take accountability.

out of curiosity.. if labour offered another referendum with stay in eu as an option, but other policies broadly similar... would you vote for them bruce?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

out of curiosity.. if labour offered another referendum with stay in eu as an option, but other policies broadly similar... would you vote for them bruce?

I suppose it depends on what other parties offer. There were some aspects of their last manifesto I agreed with, some I didn't, and a whole lot that I thought was insanely ambitious given the scale of the Brexit challenge ahead in that parliament. If this parliament has shown nothing else, it's that the government has done very little apart from Brexit, so for Labour to say they'd do Brexit AND all of the hugely complex tasks they set out in their manifesto suggests they're no more grounded in reality than the Brexit fantasists, which is sad. Under the circumstances, a more sensible centre-left party would probably be enough to get my vote.

 

[Billy Dean]

Listening to Lisa Nandy on the Today show this morning, and then seeing the chart @Groucho shared in the EU thread, it saddens me enormously. She rightly complains that her Wigan constituency were staunch leave supporters, but at no point during this whole affair has there seemed to be any attempt by Labour MPs whose constituencies voted to leave to articulate just what this will do to their communities and economies. I get that Labour is torn between its remain and leave camps, yet rather than take a logical approach and outlining how leaving with no deal will cause enormous harm to communities that are already suffering, they just accept that people voted to leave and that's that.

Where is the intellectual leadership?

Leave voters don’t want to hear it. Project fear and all that

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Leave voters don’t want to hear it. Project fear and all that

Indeed, it's of course another consequence of the Tories referendum campaign (and Trump's) that those who know their stuff on various issues have been disregarded such that people with no clue believe their views have the same relevance as actual experts, and to suggest anything else is somehow talking down to them.

I've said it before, but doctors get things wrong all the time, and indeed medical malpractice/mistakes are one of the biggest causes of deaths in hospitals, so if 'getting stuff wrong' is the yardstick we use for discounting expert opinion, we'd never listen to a doctor ever again, but of course most sane people would say that's a bonkers approach. Yet here we are, not only happily disregarding what doctors say, but giving parity with all manner of crackpot homepathic remedies proposed by people for whom we require no evidence or working out whatsoever.

I get that leave voters don't like being spoken of as daft, but I'm not really sure how else you could characterise such a situation.

 

[peteblue]

Listening to Lisa Nandy on the Today show this morning, and then seeing the chart @Groucho shared in the EU thread, it saddens me enormously. She rightly complains that her Wigan constituency were staunch leave supporters, but at no point during this whole affair has there seemed to be any attempt by Labour MPs whose constituencies voted to leave to articulate just what this will do to their communities and economies. I get that Labour is torn between its remain and leave camps, yet rather than take a logical approach and outlining how leaving with no deal will cause enormous harm to communities that are already suffering, they just accept that people voted to leave and that's that.

Where is the intellectual leadership?

Bruce, you do realise this is the Labour Party thread......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce, you do realise this is the Labour Party thread......

I come in here in the interest of balance

 

[Eggs]

....Alastair Campbell expelled from the Labour Party for voting Liberal Democrat in the Euro elections.