Current Affairs The Labour Party

[edge]

Labour's policy is to try and get a general election, if they can't get that then a Brexit deal that has cross-party support (a customs union, basically) and if they can't get that a second referendum. The confusion comes because of the way this is reported, and because - amazingly - all of them are still viable because of the mess the Government is in.

As for "very poor opposition in my eyes" - the May premiership of 2017-2019 holds the record Parliamentary defeat suffered by a government of all time, and another one of the top five. The government that holds the other three biggest defeats had 142 seats. Those defeats happened largely because of another defeat imposed on May (the meaningful vote amendment to the Withdrawal Bill). We have never had an opposition as good as this.

i beg to differ , voting for them anyway but not a very good show all around and miles away from being selectable as a government by large parts of the electorate, we will see who is right shortly i hope your right.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree with most of what you say but I don’t see what good a GE will do. Neither side will get a landslide. It seems to me very likely that we could have a GE and then end up exactly where we started except looking even more ridiculous.

A GE seems a messy solution, as people now seem to more associate around their position on Brexit than Labour or Conservative, both of whom are doing their best to sit on the fence.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Labour's policy is to try and get a general election, if they can't get that then a Brexit deal that has cross-party support (a customs union, basically) and if they can't get that a second referendum. The confusion comes because of the way this is reported, and because - amazingly - all of them are still viable because of the mess the Government is in.

The custom Union option is evidently very popular, just look at Ken Clarke indicative custom Union option, pretty much assured that's where the common ground is with Parliament and subsequent Brexit plan.

So Corbyn and labour are on the the holy centre ground of politics with the custom Union all along who would have thought!?

I'm very confident with Corbyn and Labour coming through an election very successfully because once the media is in Purdah we actually get some impartial reporting.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The custom Union option is evidently very popular, just look at Ken Clarke indicative custom Union option, pretty much assured that's where the common ground is with Parliament and subsequent Brexit plan. So Corbyn and labour are on the the holy centre ground of politics with the custom Union all along who would have thought!?. I'm very confident with Corbyn and Labour coming through an election very successfully because once the media is in Purdah we actually get some impartial reporting.

I don't really see how a customs union is in any way better than what we have now? It surely shouldn't be for elected politicians to choose a 'least bad' option that is significantly worse than what we currently enjoy. It's akin to trading full membership with what Turkey has, and would require all of the rules of the EU to be followed without having any say in them. It only really differs from Norway in that it doesn't include free movement, which is odd as I thought Labour was all about protecting individuals rights, yet it seems happy to throw them under the bus.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

It surely shouldn't be for elected politicians to choose a 'least bad' option that is significantly worse than what we currently enjoy. It's akin to trading full membership with what Turkey has, and would require all of the rules of the EU to be followed without having any say in them. It only really differs from Norway in that it doesn't include free movement, which is odd as I thought Labour was all about protecting individuals rights, yet it seems happy to throw them under the bus.

Its not, but there we are being where we at, having to deal with a Conservative Party issue that has spilled out and yet again bringing down another Tory PM, for the fourth time!

 

[abelard]

I don't really see how a customs union is in any way better than what we have now? It surely shouldn't be for elected politicians to choose a 'least bad' option that is significantly worse than what we currently enjoy. It's akin to trading full membership with what Turkey has, and would require all of the rules of the EU to be followed without having any say in them. It only really differs from Norway in that it doesn't include free movement, which is odd as I thought Labour was all about protecting individuals rights, yet it seems happy to throw them under the bus.

Did you notice how Labour's *I Can't Believe It's Not The Single Market!* proposal was defeated by 70 votes? (with all but 1 Tory voting against it or abstaining?) And that the Single Market proposal was defeated by nearly 100 votes? You may also have noticed that whereas the Tories have 314 MPs, Labour has 245?

Grrrrr I'll bet its that [Poor language removed] Corybn's fault! Why didn't he just re-arrange the brain chemistry of 71 Tory MPs so that his deal could have passed?!?!?

Honestly... we're approaching Kenwright-thread levels of pique and petulance

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Did you notice how Labour's *I Can't Believe It's Not The Single Market!* proposal was defeated by 70 votes? (with all but 1 Tory voting against it or abstaining?) And that the Single Market proposal was defeated by nearly 100 votes? You may also have noticed that whereas the Tories have 314 MPs, Labour has 245?

Grrrrr I'll bet its that [Poor language removed] Corybn's fault! Why didn't he just re-arrange the brain chemistry of 71 Tory MPs so that his deal could have passed?!?!?

Honestly... we're approaching Kenwright-thread levels of pique and petulance

We're in a situation whereby both parties are proposing outcomes that are worse than we currently enjoy, with the only difference being the degree of worseness. The only apparent rationale for this madness being that large swathes of their supporters were hoodwinked into believing a fantasy land existed, and neither party has managed to convince them that the fantasy land is a fantasy. I'd feel somewhat happier to be honest if either May or Corbyn had even bothered to try, but there we go. We're told that the 'left behinds' are disenfranchised and powerless, yet both parties are bending over backwards to deliver an inferior future, simply because it's what those people asked for. That both parties are being torn asunder in the fulfillment of those people's wish doesn't exactly smack of powerless tbh.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

We're in a situation whereby both parties are proposing outcomes that are worse than we currently enjoy, with the only difference being the degree of worseness. The only apparent rationale for this madness being that large swathes of their supporters were hoodwinked into believing a fantasy land existed, and neither party has managed to convince them that the fantasy land is a fantasy. I'd feel somewhat happier to be honest if either May or Corbyn had even bothered to try, but there we go. We're told that the 'left behinds' are disenfranchised and powerless, yet both parties are bending over backwards to deliver an inferior future, simply because it's what those people asked for. That both parties are being torn asunder in the fulfillment of those people's wish doesn't exactly smack of powerless tbh.

Be surprised at this stage, if we don’t see another referendum. The labour vote would completely collapse and the party split if they won a GE and went ahead with brexit without a referendum on their deal. Also be surprised if they didn’t have to go into a coalition with the SNP who would likely demand a 2nd ref.
Can’t see the tories gaining the additional seats needed for May’s deal to be pushed through. Don’t think they’d risk pushing through a no deal despite the posturing so would probably call a referendum rather than concede to Corbyn’s brexit plan or risk the unrest caused by no deal. Again they’d risk their vote collapsing for decades.
Mind, no one seems able to predict how things are going to pan out here.

 

[bring the ghost on]

It only really differs from Norway in that it doesn't include free movement, which is odd as I thought Labour was all about protecting individuals rights, yet it seems happy to throw them under the bus.

You can't honour the referendum decision and include free movement, it's just political suicide and nothing resembling that would ever get through parliament. If you want to go down that route, you need to push for a second referendum (which Labour hasn't ruled out).

 

[tsubaki]

The custom Union option is evidently very popular, just look at Ken Clarke indicative custom Union option, pretty much assured that's where the common ground is with Parliament and subsequent Brexit plan.

So Corbyn and labour are on the the holy centre ground of politics with the custom Union all along who would have thought!?

I'm very confident with Corbyn and Labour coming through an election very successfully because once the media is in Purdah we actually get some impartial reporting.

Clarke's CU option would have had a majority of the votes in the first indicative series, if the SNP had voted for it rather than abstaining.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

We'll end up with a deal that means we still have to abide by EU rules and regulations, pay our way, but won't have a seat at the table, absolutey farcical.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

We're in a situation whereby both parties are proposing outcomes that are worse than we currently enjoy, with the only difference being the degree of worseness. The only apparent rationale for this madness being that large swathes of their supporters were hoodwinked into believing a fantasy land existed, and neither party has managed to convince them that the fantasy land is a fantasy. I'd feel somewhat happier to be honest if either May or Corbyn had even bothered to try, but there we go. We're told that the 'left behinds' are disenfranchised and powerless, yet both parties are bending over backwards to deliver an inferior future, simply because it's what those people asked for. That both parties are being torn asunder in the fulfillment of those people's wish doesn't exactly smack of powerless tbh.

In an ideal world I would not have had a EU referendum, they are dangerous tools for educated fools, and restricticted in use for good reason in many countries.

However, here we are having to deal with a Tory civil war that has spilled out over the country.

It's going to require compromise by all to move forward. There is not much room now for belligerents from the likes of Joe or Bruce, as seen here many times, it's time for bed for both of you, it's the likes of you both that's breaking democracy, clasping your entrenched opinions.

 

[zzr45]

Be surprised at this stage, if we don’t see another referendum. The labour vote would completely collapse and the party split if they won a GE and went ahead with brexit without a referendum on their deal. Also be surprised if they didn’t have to go into a coalition with the SNP who would likely demand a 2nd ref.
Can’t see the tories gaining the additional seats needed for May’s deal to be pushed through. Don’t think they’d risk pushing through a no deal despite the posturing so would probably call a referendum rather than concede to Corbyn’s brexit plan or risk the unrest caused by no deal. Again they’d risk their vote collapsing for decades.
Mind, no one seems able to predict how things are going to pan out here.

I predict May going mad and trying to conduct an eighth Meaningful Vote from a padded cell. Still loses.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I predict May going mad and trying to conduct an eighth Meaningful Vote from a padded cell. Still loses.

Yeah I’m not sure what her end game is with repeatedly bringing these votes back. Maybe she enjoys it

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In an ideal world I would not have had a EU referendum, they are dangerous tools for educated fools, and restricticted in use for good reason in many countries.

However, here we are having to deal with a Tory civil war that has spilled out over the country.

It's going to require compromise by all to move forward. There is not much room now for belligerents from the likes of Joe or Bruce, as seen here many times, it's time for bed for both of you, it's the likes of you both that's breaking democracy, clasping your entrenched opinions.

Evidence is now called belligerence?