Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Jebus_lives]

I was at the Comic Relief comedy gig last night. He only touched on David Lammy once disparagingly without directly referring to the comments. As to the root and branch changes, Comic Relief are already doing that. For example, the video they played during the interval last night was highlighting that funds raised were going towards the training of local community development workers. It followed one community development worker on her daily work and interviewed all the local people that she helped. The video did not show one 'white face'. Lenny Henry commented that they were moving more and more towards this format - following the people on the ground. Furthermore, they've had a big restructure/strategy review to try and reduce their dependency on the one-off red nose day event. Their main way to raise money over many years was the 'celebrity goes to third world country' attracting viewers and donations. They can't just change that overnight without huge loss of income but they are making progress. No doubt every year something to do with Red Nose Day will offend someone - it's only fair that when criticising, people also acknowledge the work they are doing to address the issues.

They, like many charities, are reliant on celebrities to champion the cause. Sadly, in many instances, the voice of those doing the work largely goes unheard.

It's a difficult situation for C.R. as they want to continue to raise the money (I'm not sure anyone is suggesting that's a bad thing) and to do that you have to use recognisable faces. They do also need to do much more, in terms of raising awareness of progress in Africa and it's culture - problem is, if you do that, people then start donating less.

 

[Tubey]

I'm.sorry to disagree but racism, as you've defined earlier encompasses a range of different ideas, opinions and concepts, which become a belief.

Ethnocentrism relates to judging someone based on your own culture based on preconceptions that are found in the values and standards of your own culture.

It's nothing to do with biology or race.

I'm not even sure why your are still ignoring the definition of racism that you used earlier, but that's the starting point for deciding if something is racist or not.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

It's not solely skin colour, it's not solely a difference in biology, it's not solely about the cultural difference it's about if you inherently believe one culture is inferior to your own.

Now if you start, as you must, from the position that Africans have historically been considered inferior both culturally and legally, and it's been an ideology throughout recent history that Africans are impoverished and incapable of managing their own problems (either because of colonialism, corruption or lack of education); you greatly favour that portrayal in the media, documentaries or appeals for aid - fronted largely by white people who only become involved in one context - then you are perpetuating the portayal, no matter how well intentioned to think that you are, as Africans as inferior.

The fact that David Lammy said 'white' does not make it racist, it adds to the specific notion of 'white saviour' in the historic context of the relationship with Africa. The recognition that he should go there as a black person, is even more absurd in the debate as he himself accepts that he's no better placed to contribute than someone who is actually African.

It's not enough to simply say 'well he's black, so he is qualified to talk about African aid'. The whole point he was making is that it should be African people addressing African problems, but also balanced against a different narrative of Africa.

It's not about culture at all, it's about race. The clue is in the name.

Race is entirely separate from culture. What you are describing is xenophobia. Your understanding of this is deeply flawed.

 

[Tubey]

The fact that David Lammy said 'white' does not make it racist, it adds to the specific notion of 'white saviour' in the historic context of the relationship with Africa.

Let me explain again exactly why it's racism.

It's because by labelling Dooley as a "white saviour", he's abdicating any semblance of context and instead immediately applying her role as that of continued colonialism.

This is a false assumption and based on his own prejudice. Her skin colour in this matter should have absolutely no bearing whatsoever - because the work was being done in the context of a charity helping the underprivileged. What she was doing was no different to if she was pictured with a kid on Merseyside, or pictured at a food bank offering support. There's no 'colonialist' agenda to the work she was doing - it was charitable.

That's the issue. You and Lammy are adding irrelevant context where none should exist. A white celebrity shouldn't feel discouraged from doing something solely based on the colour of their skin. If that was a black celebrity pictured, be honest with yourself and admit that not a single eyebrow would have been raised by Lammy. That's the racism - the belief that because of the colour of her skin, she isn't morally equal.

I won't be posting anything more - if you can't see it and you really think Stacey Dooley being pictured with a black kid is expanding upon colonialism, then so be it.

 

[Jebus_lives]

It's not about culture at all, it's about race. The clue is in the name.

Race is entirely separate from culture. What you are describing is xenophobia. Your understanding of this is deeply flawed.

You can be Xenophobic as an African against other Africans. Xenophobia is about prejudice based on countries rather than race.


I could share a national origin with you, and also belong to the same race.

I'll just post the definition of racism again:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Let me explain again exactly why it's racism.

It's because by labelling Dooley as a "white saviour", he's abdicating any semblance of context and instead immediately applying her role as that of continued colonialism.

This is a false assumption and based on his own prejudice. Her skin colour in this matter should have absolutely no bearing whatsoever - because the work was being done in the context of a charity helping the underprivileged. What she was doing was no different to if she was pictured with a kid on Merseyside, or pictured at a food bank offering support. There's no 'colonialist' agenda to the work she was doing - it was charitable.

That's the issue. You and Lammy are adding irrelevant context where none should exist. A white celebrity shouldn't feel discouraged from doing something solely based on the colour of their skin. If that was a black celebrity pictured, be honest with yourself and admit that not a single eyebrow would have been raised by Lammy. That's the racism - the belief that because of the colour of her skin, she isn't morally equal.

I won't be posting anything more - if you can't see it and you really think Stacey Dooley being pictured with a black kid is expanding upon colonialism, then so be it.

So you cannot believe that you are superior to another race if you are doing charity work?

 

[Tubey]

You can be Xenophobic as an African against other Africans. Xenophobia is about prejudice based on countries rather than race.


I could share a national origin with you, and also belong to the same race.

I'll just post the definition of racism again:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

lollollol

Bloody hell mate, if you're going to try and lecture on definitions, at least do your bloody research.

Yeah OK, xenophobia means fear of Belgium or whatever.

FFS lol

 

[Tubey]

So you cannot believe that you are superior to another race if you are doing charity work?

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying isn't it?



Get lost mate.

 

[magicjuan]

I said that the working class are oppressed but it is not for the colour of their skin. It is an oppression that comes in a different form. It is an odd thing to say 'well this is group is oppressed too' when there is a discussion about the reasons behind another group's oppression. Racism is a real and direct form of oppression - that doesn't stop there being oppression for others based on class, gender, religion, sexuality but not all oppression is the same.

It is usually operated for the same end, profit.

 

[billyblue80]

The Labour party is an utter ruderless mess. And I say that as a Labour voter for twenty odd years. I am for them calling for a new referendum but under Corbyn they are going nowhere.

 

[Jebus_lives]

lollollol

Bloody hell mate, if you're going to try and lecture on definitions, at least do your bloody research.

Yeah OK, xenophobia means fear of Belgium or whatever.

FFS lol

Well the origin is Xenos as in 'foreign' and phobos 'fear' so fear of foreigners is generally correct yes, but I'd probably consider it more common to think about it as hostility against non-natives to a population.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The Labour party is an utter ruderless mess. And I say that as a Labour voter for twenty odd years. I am for them calling for a new referendum but under Corbyn they are going nowhere.

It's not that bad, once we get into a Purdah period the media has to be impartial, this is very similar to mid 2016 to election Purdah period 2017. The now independent group were never going to accept Corbyn or any policy, they are too Tory to put it bluntly, their fate was always out of Labour it was just the method of how they were disposed. And as for antisemitism, never heard it in my world, really have not, plenty racism about black people , Muslim people, Irish people french Spanish German people.

And another referendum is abhorant for our democracy, just let's a load of rent gobs afront the cohesion of the country, again.

 

[davek]

Chuka Umunna: I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party

Streatham MP says decision to breakaway and form TIG, ‘hugely liberating’

www.theguardian.com

“If truth be told, certainly culturally, I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party..." . Umunna only joined Labour in the 1990s, after the reforms initiated by Tony Blair, and said perhaps the period up to 2010, when Ed Miliband took over, was a historic aberration, and his old party had now reverted to type.“Maybe what we’ve seen happen in the Labour party since the late 1990s and through to 2010, was actually exceptional, and wasn’t what the Labour party really is?”

Well, the rat at least figured that one out anyway.

 

[scratchnsurf]

Because there isn't a few hundred years worth of history of black folk going to 'civilize' Africa? I've said to you before that much of the colonial period was typified by Kipling's 'white man's burden', whereby it was beholden upon the white European to save the backward colonies. That was explicit, but people like William Easterly suggest that this implicit 'white European knows best' attitude has pervaded throughout the aid community for much of the latter half of the 20th century.

Compare that to approaches such as CK Prahalad's fortune at the bottom of the pyramid or Muhammad Yunus' microfinance work and it's a very different approach. This feels a bit like the difficulty some folk had in grasping why we shouldn't sing songs about the size of Mina's penis. It shouldn't really be that hard to grasp, should it?

Are you asking us to comment on how hard it is to grasp Mina's penis?

 

[tsubaki]

Chuka Umunna: I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party

Streatham MP says decision to breakaway and form TIG, ‘hugely liberating’

www.theguardian.com

“If truth be told, certainly culturally, I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party..." . Umunna only joined Labour in the 1990s, after the reforms initiated by Tony Blair, and said perhaps the period up to 2010, when Ed Miliband took over, was a historic aberration, and his old party had now reverted to type.“Maybe what we’ve seen happen in the Labour party since the late 1990s and through to 2010, was actually exceptional, and wasn’t what the Labour party really is?”

Well, the rat at least figured that one out anyway.

He nominated Ed Miliband for leader, and Ed Miliband was responsible for giving him every Shadow ministerial role that he ever had - but when Ed took over was when the Labour Party reverted to type.

An utter snake, him.

 

[wellillwill]

Chuka Umunna: I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party

Streatham MP says decision to breakaway and form TIG, ‘hugely liberating’

www.theguardian.com

“If truth be told, certainly culturally, I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party..." . Umunna only joined Labour in the 1990s, after the reforms initiated by Tony Blair, and said perhaps the period up to 2010, when Ed Miliband took over, was a historic aberration, and his old party had now reverted to type.“Maybe what we’ve seen happen in the Labour party since the late 1990s and through to 2010, was actually exceptional, and wasn’t what the Labour party really is?”

Well, the rat at least figured that one out anyway.

"I know that I'm not supposed to support the Tories, but part of me desperately wants to, and I need to find a way to rationalise that"