Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Jebus_lives]

I'm looking at the definition that applies to all races. Every single one.

Prejudice based on skin colour and a belief of superiority, whether moral, physical etc.

e.g. the one in the dictionary.

But you aren't. You are using a definition entirely of your own construction, which seems to evolve and adapt depending upon the point you are trying to make:

You started with this:
prejudice based solely on race/the colour of their skin.

Then you posted a link to the actual definition, which you have completely ignored, which is this:

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

and now you've decided its:

Prejudice based on skin colour and a belief of superiority, whether moral, physical etc.

Which seems like a deliberate attempt to conflate the point.

 

[Tubey]

But you aren't. You are using a definition entirely of your own construction, which seems to evolve and adapt depending upon the point you are trying to make:

You started with this:
prejudice based solely on race/the colour of their skin.

Then you posted a link to the actual definition, which you have completely ignored, which is this:

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

and now you've decided its:

Prejudice based on skin colour and a belief of superiority, whether moral, physical etc.

Which seems like a deliberate attempt to conflate the point.

Read my post again and I specifically highlight why its racist by that definition by highlighting Lammy depicting moral superiority.

You either haven't read it, or are choosing not to.

 

[dholliday]

But you aren't. You are using a definition entirely of your own construction, which seems to evolve and adapt depending upon the point you are trying to make:

You started with this:
prejudice based solely on race/the colour of their skin.

Then you posted a link to the actual definition, which you have completely ignored, which is this:

Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

and now you've decided its:

Prejudice based on skin colour and a belief of superiority, whether moral, physical etc.

Which seems like a deliberate attempt to conflate the point.

Read my post again and I specifically highlight why its racist by that definition by highlighting Lammy depicting moral superiority.

You either haven't read it, or are choosing not to.

ffs lol

Lammy has a point but he made it offensively.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Because there is a clear link between Africa's problems and ours. For a start, the people who are benefitting from the looting of their continent are the same as those who benefit from the looting of ours.

Prescisely.

That was largely the point I was trying to infer.

 

[Tubey]

ffs lol

Lammy has a point but he made it offensively.

In a nutshell, yes.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Read my post again and I specifically highlight why its racist by that definition by highlighting Lammy depicting moral superiority.

You either haven't read it, or are choosing not to.

I have read it.

Your argument here essentially is 'man who calls out well intentioned racism, is racist'.

If you challenge racism or a perpetution of racist tropes as a black person, you are claiming 'moral superiority'??

 

[Jebus_lives]

In a nutshell, yes.

Being offended by what he said does not make him racist, nor does it make what he said racist.

 

[Tubey]

I have read it.

Your argument here essentially is 'man who calls out well intentioned racism, is racist'.

If you challenge racism or a perpetution of racist tropes as a black person, you are claiming 'moral superiority'??

No, because I don't think it's well intentioned racism - I think it's western cultural arrogance. I think it's ridiculous to accuse Lenny Henry of "well intentioned racism" when he founded Comic Relief.

No, my argument is "man misidentifies, either wilfully or accidentally, western arrogance as white racism".

As I quoted before, his second tweet I have zero issue with.



The first tweet, I most certainly do.

 

[Jebus_lives]

No, because I don't think it's well intentioned racism - I think it's western cultural arrogance. I think it's ridiculous to accuse Lenny Henry of "well intentioned racism" when he founded Comic Relief.

No, my argument is "man misidentifies, either wilfully or accidentally, western arrogance as white racism".

As I quoted before, his second tweet I have zero issue with.



The first tweet, I most certainly do.

Why is Lenny Henry, based on the definition of Racism, not able to be racist against Africans?

Because of the colour of his skin?

Western Culturally Arrogance - what are you defining that as, because it's import in the discussion?

Because if you consider arrogance to be exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities (superiority) then racism definitely applies.

 

[Tubey]

Why is Lenny Henry, based on the definition of Racism, not able to be racist against Africans?

Because of the colour of his skin?

Western Culturally Arrogance - what are you defining that as, because it's import in the discussion?

Because if you consider arrogance to be exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities (superiority) then racism definitely applies.

'African' isn't a race, it's a geographic area. So no, Henry is incapable of being racist against Africans; nobody is capable of that.

Instead, that'd be Afrophobia.

As for what I define as western arrogance, read Lammy's tweet I quoted, which I 100% agree with. Comic Relief is fundamentally flawed - but not because of the concept of a "white saviour"; rather because of the concept of a "western saviour".

 

[Jebus_lives]

'African' isn't a race, it's a geographic area. So no, Henry is incapable of being racist against Africans; nobody is capable of that.

Instead, that'd be Afrophobia.

As for what I define as western arrogance, read Lammy's tweet I quoted, which I 100% agree with. Comic Relief is fundamentally flawed - but not because of the concept of a "white saviour"; rather because of the concept of a "western saviour".

Why is Afrophobia not racism?

If Africa is only a geographic location, why have you introduced a concept of Afrophobia in the discussion to highlight the distinction between a black European of West Indian origin's inability to be racist against Africans (for the record I have no idea what Lenny Henry thinks, but to suggest he can't feel superior to Africans because he is black is absurd, as is suggesting Africa is only a geographic place, while highlighting a concept specifically directed at a fear of African culture and ideology).

Racism is not about the colour of Skin, it's about the way you perceive race (which I recognise is largely seen as a social construct), which is why you can be racist against Irish people or Jews or gypsies despite being white.

 

[Tubey]

Why is Afrophobia not racism?

If Africa is only a geographic location, why have you introduced a concept of Afrophobia in the discussion to highlight the distinction between a black European of West Indian origin's inability to be racist against Africans (for the record I have no idea what Lenny Henry thinks, but to suggest he can't feel superior to Africans because he is black is absurd, as is suggesting Africa is only a geographic place, while highlighting a concept specifically directed at a fear of African culture and ideology).

Racism is not about the colour of Skin, it's about the way you perceive race (which I recognise is largely seen as a social construct), which is why you can be racist against Irish people or Jews or gypsies despite being white.

No mate, ethnicity and race aren't the same thing. "Racism" is often used as a catch-all term, but the correct term would be ethnocentrism - to express a belief that one ethnicity is superior to another. It's just not as catchy.

Easiest way to distinguish the two - racism is about biological difference, whereas ethnicity is socio-cultural identity.

 

[dholliday]

Easiest way to distinguish the two - racism is about biological difference, whereas ethnicity is socio-cultural identity.

what's the biological difference between peoples of different shaded skin? are you speaking of melanin? that's a chemical process, not technically-speaking biological.

 

[abelard]

no it bloody well does not, it means i know real people with real experience of the things we're talking about, something you prefer to dismiss in favour of anti-chinese media you found while googling.

I have been looking at Chinese investment in Africa in a professional capacity for several years now. I personally know the authors of two of those pieces, and the publisher of a third. It is not a matter of random Googling.

This is why I called you on your nonsense.

Do you not understand how journalism works? People who are experts in a given region try to explain why something has happened, after speaking with the many real people with real experiences and insight, whom they trust with their professional credibility and ability to continue publishing in the field.

The hundreds of episodes of documented racial tension with Chinese firms across the continent, including Ghana, are not negated by the one person you spoke to, who was unaware or who just didn't happen to mention it to you.

You also still do not seem to grasp that Africa is not a country. Even @Tubey knows better.

You are not entitled to describe the views of 1.2 billion people across 54 countries because you spoke to a single person, least of all if you have nothing more to add than tired stereotypes.

I know that you know that I know that you have been chatting wham all morning about this topic.

So... just stop it already.

And try to learn something from this, like: next time, look before you leap.

 

[davids]

"I like many others are absolutely disgusted at the state of events happening within the Labour Party, the fact that the IHRA is doing exactly what it’s designed to do, is appalling, it is silencing people on the treatment of the lives of the Palestinian people, this is outrageous, this happens with no one else in the world, we are free to speak about atrocities happening in the world, but as soon as we mention about the Israeli government, like Chris Williamson was merely pointing out, we are slapped down and the anti semitism card is played. We all know this is nothing to do with the Jewish community, so let’s not kid ourselves, we are all aware of the corruption smear that is being played out, the very one Chris Williamson spoke about in Parliament, but the government refused to answer the questions put to them on the subject and people are angry, because it is insulting all Party members, it’s pretty clear people are also determined to make sure that Jeremy Corbyn never becomes PM, like Theresa May said, in which I believe sounded more like a threat, we the people are not stupid and we are all full aware of who is behind all these smears, so let’s cut the crap.
If the Labour Party continues on its current path in demonising people for criticism of certain people and the bullying people are receiving if they criticise the Israeli government, then the Labour Party will lose 3/4 of its members at least, we are fed up, there are several MP’s that seem determined to oust certain people in the party, Tom Watson and Louise Ellman being two of them, but this endless smear has to end, it’s being deliberately done to try and whip up hatred and it is posing a serious threat to democracy and the stability of this country as a whole, people are starving and really suffering out there and if these certain people can’t get behind the leader, then they should leave the party, because I believe there is far more at stake than one or two selfish money grabbing politicians here, this country will head for civil unrest, because we have a government that are ripping society apart. You can choose to take note of this letter, or you can choose to ignore, but I and many others didn’t join the Labour Party because of one man, we joined because we are sick of tax dodging people, from politicians to big corporations and we are sick of what is happening to our country, since the Tories have been in power.
I would also like to point out, that I believe Chris Williamson and Marc Wandsworth said nothing wrong, personally I don’t care whether people are Jewish Muslim, or American etc, we are all one person, but if we can’t criticise a state when their governments are needlessly killing people and leaving them stateless, like the Israeli government are doing, then there is some very serious corruption going on in politics around the world and the world will head to a very bad place. I hope I’ve put this clear enough for every Labour MP to understand, just remind them, we the tax payers pay their wages and endless expenses, they need to buck up, or shut up and do the job they are paid to do, the political parties are meant to work for the people, not themselves."
Couldn't have put it better myself.