Current Affairs The Labour Party

[abelard]

It shouldn't really be that hard to grasp, should it?

perhaps an unfortunate phrasing though, given the circumstances

i'll show myself out now...

 

[dholliday]

between your one token black friend and journalism, i trust journalism

well that tells me a lot about you if you think having black friends is tokenism.

have a word with yourself, you may find you're part of the problem.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I'm not going to get bogged down on the racism point, as I don't think he is. However he is a prat.

“The world does not need any more white saviours."

Ok everyone pack up and let Africa deal with it's own issues as everyone can see that is working. All in hand nothing to see here...

I think we are all sensible enough to realise that there are some very rich parts and people in Africa (politicians *cough for starters) as well as the worst places that we see on the films that comic relief show.

But while there are places like that on Earth then if it's possible the money should be raised on their behalf. I wouldn't mind if the rich parts of Africa had a fundraiser for our homeless issue, might shame our government to do more just in the same way as I hope what CR does not just in Africa but at home too.

I find it extremely difficult to watch the videos they make but it is what is. You are not going to get donations if you go to some well to do house with James Corden narrating 'this man only has a house with 6 large bedrooms and as you can see his gold plated toilet has unsightly fingerprint marks as his cleaner hasn't been round since lunchtime yesterday. Can you imagine the horror living like this? Give generously. Back to the studio'.

 

[abelard]

well that tells me a lot about you if you think having black friends is tokenism.

have a word with yourself, you may find you're part of the problem.

but that's exactly what it means to you.

you talked to a black person, and now feel entitled to draw conclusions about all of Africa

 

[Tubey]

Because there isn't a few hundred years worth of history of black folk going to 'civilize' Africa? I've said to you before that much of the colonial period was typified by Kipling's 'white man's burden', whereby it was beholden upon the white European to save the backward colonies. That was explicit, but people like William Easterly suggest that this implicit 'white European knows best' attitude has pervaded throughout the aid community for much of the latter half of the 20th century.

Compare that to approaches such as CK Prahalad's fortune at the bottom of the pyramid or Muhammad Yunus' microfinance work and it's a very different approach. This feels a bit like the difficulty some folk had in grasping why we shouldn't sing songs about the size of Mina's penis. It shouldn't really be that hard to grasp, should it?

What's seemingly hard for you to grasp is that racism isn't a one way street in 2019.

You keep referring to Kipling, like it has any meaning whatsoever on this discussion. He doesn't. Pointing out Lammy's racism isn't denying the colonial history of the UK/Europe and historic racism; it's saying that right now, in 2019, the west is a cultural hot pot of every race.

Something like Comic Relief, which features amongst its' leading lights Lenny Henry, a black man, isn't a "white" cause - it's a "western" cause, where people of every race and religion donate to that cause. Those two things in modern day context are two entirely different things.

It's not "white European knows best" - it's simply "European knows best". Again, if he had said "western saviour", none of this is an issue, And again, if Lenny Henry was pictured with a black kid instead of Dooley, Lammy wouldn't have opened his mouth. Because he is a racist - he saw skin colour first and foremost.

You are looking at it from entirely the wrong angle - the issue is one of racism, where Lammy has claimed moral superiority over Stacey Dooley based solely on the colour of her and his own skin.

That really, really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

 

[Tubey]

You also don't 'fix' racism by pretending that it doesn't have a legacy or that it no longer has an impact, just because you suddenly say so.

It is not for you to decide that the slate has suddenly been wiped clean, just because history makes you uncomfortable.

I said absolutely none of these things.

 

[dholliday]

but that's exactly what it means to you.

you talked to a black person, and now feel entitled to draw conclusions about all of Africa

no it bloody well does not, it means i know real people with real experience of the things we're talking about, something you prefer to dismiss in favour of anti-chinese media you found while googling.

and that would've been ok had you not suddenly felt compelled to announce black tokenism. your post is borderline offensive as it cheapens black/white relationships (which are a lot healthier than i expect your limited experience can imagine).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What's seemingly hard for you to grasp is that racism isn't a one way street in 2019.

You keep referring to Kipling, like it has any meaning whatsoever on this discussion. He doesn't. Pointing out Lammy's racism isn't denying the colonial history of the UK/Europe and historic racism; it's saying that right now, in 2019, the west is a cultural hot pot of every race.

Something like Comic Relief, which features amongst its' leading lights Lenny Henry, a black man, isn't a "white" cause - it's a "western" cause, where people of every race and religion donate to that cause. Those two things in modern day context are two entirely different things.

It's not "white European knows best" - it's simply "European knows best". Again, if he had said "western saviour", none of this is an issue, And again, if Lenny Henry was pictured with a black kid instead of Dooley, Lammy wouldn't have opened his mouth. Because he is a racist - he saw skin colour first and foremost.

You are looking at it from entirely the wrong angle - the issue is one of racism, where Lammy has claimed moral superiority over Stacey Dooley based solely on the colour of her and his own skin.

That really, really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

You're an argumentative bugger mate

 

[Jebus_lives]

I'm not going to get bogged down on the racism point, as I don't think he is. However he is a prat.

“The world does not need any more white saviours."

Ok everyone pack up and let Africa deal with it's own issues as everyone can see that is working. All in hand nothing to see here...

I think we are all sensible enough to realise that there are some very rich parts and people in Africa (politicians *cough for starters) as well as the worst places that we see on the films that comic relief show.

But while there are places like that on Earth then if it's possible the money should be raised on their behalf. I wouldn't mind if the rich parts of Africa had a fundraiser for our homeless issue, might shame our government to do more just in the same way as I hope what CR does not just in Africa but at home too.

I find it extremely difficult to watch the videos they make but it is what is. You are not going to get donations if you go to some well to do house with James Corden narrating 'this man only has a house with 6 large bedrooms and as you can see his gold plated toilet has unsightly fingerprint marks as his cleaner hasn't been round since lunchtime yesterday. Can you imagine the horror living like this? Give generously. Back to the studio'.

The entire GDP of all African countries is lower than the GDP of the UK.

The 'rich countries' in Africa should definitely not be handing out aid to wealthier countries who can't or won't resolve their own problems.

You might be justified in arguing 'why if we can't resolve own own homelessness issue with the resource and finance available to us, are we attempting to solve Africa's problems?'

 

[Jebus_lives]

What's seemingly hard for you to grasp is that racism isn't a one way street in 2019.

You keep referring to Kipling, like it has any meaning whatsoever on this discussion. He doesn't. Pointing out Lammy's racism isn't denying the colonial history of the UK/Europe and historic racism; it's saying that right now, in 2019, the west is a cultural hot pot of every race.

Something like Comic Relief, which features amongst its' leading lights Lenny Henry, a black man, isn't a "white" cause - it's a "western" cause, where people of every race and religion donate to that cause. Those two things in modern day context are two entirely different things.

It's not "white European knows best" - it's simply "European knows best". Again, if he had said "western saviour", none of this is an issue, And again, if Lenny Henry was pictured with a black kid instead of Dooley, Lammy wouldn't have opened his mouth. Because he is a racist - he saw skin colour first and foremost.

You are looking at it from entirely the wrong angle - the issue is one of racism, where Lammy has claimed moral superiority over Stacey Dooley based solely on the colour of her and his own skin.

That really, really shouldn't be hard to grasp.

You are looking at from entirely the wrong definition of racism.

 

[tsubaki]

It’s in relation to their race. Working class people have very much been oppressed in the west but for reasons other than their race. I should have been clearer on my point

Not really. Working class people have been and are being oppressed, and to prevent them objecting to it the ruling classes have always looked to use race (and hatred based on race) to divide the mass of the people - "you are better than the black man, but he is willing to work for less than you" / "these immigrants are taking your benefits, thats why your family can't get social housing" / "these white/black people are all Trump/Clinton supporters, thats why the black/white community must vote for Clinton/Trump " etc etc.

Or to use much a better example, when the great Paul Robeson - the son of a man who had been a slave and who grew up in a US that was far more openly and violently racist than it is now - met a group of striking Welsh miners (who had walked to London to protest how they were being treated during the General Strike of 1926) he recognised almost at once that they were the same sort of people as he was. He supported those men (and many others) because they were the same as him, having suffered differently but having the same sort of experience at the hands of the same sort of people.

Of course after the war was fought his own country attacked him for fifteen years because of saying things like that, as well objecting to lynchings, colonialism and for demanding his rights as an American.

 

[Tubey]

You're an argumentative bugger mate lol

Let me be more succinct then. If he had initially said this:



... then that makes his point without being a racist.

I'll leave it to you to discern the difference between the above tweet and his original one. If you can't see it, can't help you.

 

[dholliday]

The entire GDP of all African countries is lower than the GDP of the UK.

The 'rich countries' in Africa should definitely not be handing out aid to wealthier countries who can't or won't resolve their own problems.

You might be justified in arguing 'why if we can't resolve own own homelessness issue with the resource and finance available to us, are we attempting to solve Africa's problems?'

The solution to Africa's woes would be supported by many of their folk, namely a United States of Africa. I expect this isn't a solution western powers are too keen on, but it's a solution China is possibly interested in, as long-term it creates a new superpower over which they themselves hold some economical influence.

 

[Tubey]

You are looking at from entirely the wrong definition of racism.

I'm looking at the definition that applies to all races. Every single one.

Prejudice based on skin colour and a belief of superiority, whether moral, physical etc.

e.g. the one in the dictionary.

 

[tsubaki]

The entire GDP of all African countries is lower than the GDP of the UK.

The 'rich countries' in Africa should definitely not be handing out aid to wealthier countries who can't or won't resolve their own problems.

You might be justified in arguing 'why if we can't resolve own own homelessness issue with the resource and finance available to us, are we attempting to solve Africa's problems?'

Because there is a clear link between Africa's problems and ours. For a start, the people who are benefitting from the looting of their continent are the same as those who benefit from the looting of ours.