Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

.

Yes Dave, thing is, we aren't and never were a socialist country. Barely a social democratic one. Personally I find it hard to defend universalism for those to benefit from when they've debrief benefits for anyone else. Particularly when its crocodile tears. if we're having a selective and means tested welfare state, I guess that element should apply universally.

Enjoy the blue-rinse toryism.

We were a social democratic country between the period 1945 and 1979.

A post-war consensus was built around pretty much job security, a well funded welfare state, free healthcare and a place for trade unionism in decision making on the economy.

 

[davek]

Having net a net worth of 8 mil and having 8 mil in the bank are completely two different things.

Let's just say he's fabulously rich and doesn't require handouts for himself or his wife to get clothes and glasses or attend matches.

 

[davek]

And there will be hundreds of thousands of not more kids (also vulnerable to the cold) in the same situation. Why shouldn't they be supported too. You can't just keep arguing the toss for one group. Everyone suffers the cold. Me and many other working individuals are cautious turning on the heating or having it on to long due to the expense.

Think you should be criticising why fuel bills are so expensive in the first place. Why under the Tories have we lost control of this. Simply saying the Russian war isn't an excuse either.

You won't get an argument from me on that. But I'd advise you turn your ire toward a 'Labour' Government that won't extend child tax credit beyond two children - a hindrance that plunges millions of lower income families into poverty.

 

[davek]

There’s claims being made that the increase in vulnerable pensioners claiming entitlements mean the country won’t even save much money.

If that’s true then roughly the same money is being given to pensioners as a whole but feasibly less vulnerable pensioners being placed at risk of poor health & possibly death because more of those truely in need are now getting the support they are owed on top of the WFA & the increases from the triple lock.

Admittedly it’s not the socialist utopia with unlimited welfare spending that seems to be rising in popularity all of a sudden.

Any civilised government goes and taxes wealth before they place their old people in a situation where they can be harmed.

The Starmer lot are not civilised. They are dictated to by corporate Britain. Not only are they not progressive or socialist, they are Thatcherite.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

We were a social democratic country between the period 1945 and 1979.

A post-war consensus was built around pretty much job security, a well funded welfare state, free healthcare and a place for trade unionism in decision making on the economy.

Ah, the look and feel of a social democracy but a populace who never truly subscribed to those ideals enough to defend them and truly value them.

Otherwise we'd not be where we are now. Kin Tories, everywhere.

 

[orchard]

Let's just say he's fabulously rich and doesn't require handouts for himself or his wife to get clothes and glasses or attend matches.

He's not fabulously rich though, he's well off mind, no doubt about that, but with what popularity he had plummeting like Eddy the Eagle, what sort of selfish entitled bell doesn't hold his hands up and clamp down on it (and elsewhere on the parliamentary estate) as a definite easy boost - and then at least there will be something that he doesn't have in common with the last government.

 

[Charro]

And all paid for by that £300 he stole off your granny. Economics of the madhouse…but don’t worry, everyone will be paying for it come the end of October….

 

[davek]

……because it was a hospitality ticket. Who has ever paid for such a thing?
No such fuss from the Tory gutter press when “man of the people “ Sunak rocked up at Southampton more than once when PM.
The real issue here is not that Starmer goes to football but that he goes to f***ing Arsenal.

Complete bunkum and with zero context.

Starmer is an elected 'Labour' PM. He should be going nowhere near any free goods or services. That gives the impression that their favours can be bought.

In any case, when he's demanding pensioners take a cut in their benefits his taking of thousands of pounds worth of free gear and services is completely disgusting.

There can NO defence of this, and those who are defending it should look at themselves and wonder where they went wrong. Just pointing at Tory grift and corruption doesn't square off Starmer's grifting. Does it?

 

[davek]

He's not fabulously rich though, he's well off mind, no doubt about that, but with what popularity he had plummeting like Eddy the Eagle, what sort of selfish entitled bell doesn't hold his hands up and clamp down on it (and elsewhere on the parliamentary estate) as a definite easy boost - and then at least there will be something that he doesn't have in common with the last government.

WTF?

How much do you think he has that would make it right that he takes free gear in an age of austerity...or anytime in fact?

 

[davek]

Ah, the look and feel of a social democracy but a populace who never truly subscribed to those ideals enough to defend them and truly value them.

Otherwise we'd not be where we are now. Kin Tories, everywhere.

No population is idelogically driven outside some dictatorship like nazi Germany.

But people did value the post war consensus and it's provision of economic and social security. How could they not?

The only reason it fell was because it was ideologically attacked by the media and forces of the state looking to make workers pay for inflation and that's how the huge 1970s industrial actions came about.

Callaghan's Government started the ball rolling on that, then Thatcher came in and really used force by getting the police and army involved as strike breakers and politicising the judiciary to smash worker's organisations. Starmer's government is cast in that image. That's why he's handing us austerity.

 

[Xizor]

People who voted and even lauded the Tories throughout the cuts to welfare and public spending would do well to keep quiet regarding any cuts this Labour Party makes to WFA.

They’re using it as a stick to beat Labour whilst pretending to actually care about those less well off all of a sudden.

They clearly couldn’t care less.

Further, people who have recently boasted about cheating the exchequer out of significant quantities of inheritance tax should probably pipe down a little when they talk about "stealing £300 off your granny" since they fiddled the system to make sure that money went to their kids instead.

In fact they should probably work out how much they stole from the public purse, divide it by 300 and then go round apologising personally to that many pensioners that frequent any pubs they may or may not run.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

No population is idelogically driven outside some dictatorship like nazi Germany.

But people did value the post war consensus and it's provision of economic and social security. How could they not?

The only reason it fell was because it was ideologically attacked by the media and forces of the state looking to make workers pay for inflation and that's how the huge 1970s industrial actions came about.

Callaghan's Government started the ball rolling on that, then Thatcher came in and really used force by getting the police and army involved as strike breakers and politicising the judiciary to smash worker's organisations. Starmer's government is cast in that image. That's why he's handing us austerity.

Frankly Dave, folk are bad Tories. They voted for what they wanted.

We're seeing it play out over pensions. It's been happening for years. Self-centredness. It's at the heart of socialism too, in truth.

Sorry mate, we're seeing the logical conclusion of the pigdog capitalist mindset of the average Briton.

If Putin nuked us, he'd be doing us a favour comrade.

 

[StDomingosGringo]

Any civilised government goes and taxes wealth before they place their old people in a situation where they can be harmed.

Putting aside we haven’t had the budget yet you didn’t answer if more vulnerable pensioners now claim what they are owed how are more being harmed?

If the same amount of money now goes to the most in need instead of folk who by their own admission don’t need it (which appears to be 100% of our pensioners on here) surely the number at risk will go down?

 

[larrygobfiend]

We will see who is doing the crying after Oct 30th….

I’ve already said I’m willing to pay more tax to fix the mess this country is in.

How does it feel to know you’ll probably never see another Tory government in your lifetime?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Putting aside we haven’t had the budget yet you didn’t answer if more vulnerable pensioners now claim what they are owed how are more being harmed?

If the same amount of money now goes to the most in need instead of folk who by their own admission don’t need it (which appears to be 100% of our pensioners on here) surely the number at risk will go down?

If you stop and think about it, but means testing they are taking from the wealthiest. There are pensioners who live lifestyles some of us can only dream of.

If everyone else gets scrutinised in this fragmented pseudo-welfare state of ours, then so should they.

Socialism is dead comrades. It never existed. Just an a large scale self-interested pact, thst got ditched when heads were turned.

That ladies and gentlemen is dirty Britain.