Current Affairs The Labour Party

[coollino]

No idea who this fella is.

But I like what he says.

He is one of the biggest chat show hosts in the US, which I'm always fairly surprised with as he is loads more political than most. He went in on Israel very quickly compared to most, too

 

[Goat]

He is one of the biggest chat show hosts in the US, which I'm always fairly surprised with as he is loads more political than most. He went in on Israel very quickly compared to most, too

Yeah, I googled him after to see is I was gonna get ripped for using him.

He seems a decent sort.


Oliver was opposed to Brexit, making multiple pieces about it and calling it "painful, it's pointless, and most of you didn't even agree to run it; you were just signed up by your dumbest friend". He also found it "sad" to consider that his children with British citizenship would not experience the benefits of the EU.[107] He has also been particularly critical of the British Conservative Party, and of Boris Johnson when he was Prime Minister of the UK.[108] In November 2022, he made a piece criticising the British monarchy, stating "we've long evolved past needing them".[109] He also criticised the Royal Family's secrecy concerning their wealth, calling them "a freeloading multimillionaire family exempt from paying most taxes" and stating that "the Royal Family's wealth ― unlike its gene pool ― is massive".[110] Oliver is reportedly in favour of Britain becoming a Republic.[111] Oliver declined an Order of the British Empire.[111] On a September 2022 edition of Late Night with Seth Meyers, he said he declined the award because he didn't want his name being associated with the words "British Empire", and expressed distaste for the British class system.[112]

In American politics, Oliver favoured Joe Biden for president in the 2020 election, later celebrating his victory over Donald Trump. He warned that "more than 70 million people voted for [Trump] and everything he said and stands for, and that is something we are going to have to reckon with for the foreseeable future".[113] Oliver has been strongly critical of Trump and the Republican Party on Last Week Tonight.[114][115] Politico argued that Oliver criticised liberal politicians as much as those on the right.[116]

Oliver has expressed support for LGBT and transgender rights,[117][118][119] abortion rights,[120][121] immigration reform (particularly making access to immigration systems easier),[122][123] criminal justice reform (particularly stopping wrongful convictions and harmful prison labour),[124][125][126] police reform,[127][128] Medicare for All,[129][130] net neutrality,[131][132] legalization of marijuana,[133][134] and gun control.[135] He has expressed opposition to the death penalty and lethal injections,[136][137] solitary confinement,[138] and US drone strikes.[139][140]

 

[davek]

How on Earth can I have an honest debate with you? You ignore anything I post and just go off on a tangent.

I'll ask you one question at a time which maybe you will answer. Will you acknowledge that the 2 year period for people looking to change their gender was initially a Labour policy rather than a Tory one?

Yes, I will acknowledge that. Maybe you can acknowledge that the 'Labour' Party's mindset on transgender rights is at best slightly more open than the Tory's. Both accept Cass, which is an assault on the trans right to exist. The rest is just arguments on how tough to make transitioning. That is all.

I've looked at your posting history on the trans issue and you look like you at least have an open mind on it - defending, at least, certain transgender athletes from attack about attempting to gain an advantage.

I can only think that your commitment to this Starmer party trumps that and has you defending the milk sop policy they've announced today.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

One of his better ones

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Yeah, I googled him after to see is I was gonna get ripped for using him.

He seems a decent sort.


Oliver was opposed to Brexit, making multiple pieces about it and calling it "painful, it's pointless, and most of you didn't even agree to run it; you were just signed up by your dumbest friend". He also found it "sad" to consider that his children with British citizenship would not experience the benefits of the EU.[107] He has also been particularly critical of the British Conservative Party, and of Boris Johnson when he was Prime Minister of the UK.[108] In November 2022, he made a piece criticising the British monarchy, stating "we've long evolved past needing them".[109] He also criticised the Royal Family's secrecy concerning their wealth, calling them "a freeloading multimillionaire family exempt from paying most taxes" and stating that "the Royal Family's wealth ― unlike its gene pool ― is massive".[110] Oliver is reportedly in favour of Britain becoming a Republic.[111] Oliver declined an Order of the British Empire.[111] On a September 2022 edition of Late Night with Seth Meyers, he said he declined the award because he didn't want his name being associated with the words "British Empire", and expressed distaste for the British class system.[112]

In American politics, Oliver favoured Joe Biden for president in the 2020 election, later celebrating his victory over Donald Trump. He warned that "more than 70 million people voted for [Trump] and everything he said and stands for, and that is something we are going to have to reckon with for the foreseeable future".[113] Oliver has been strongly critical of Trump and the Republican Party on Last Week Tonight.[114][115] Politico argued that Oliver criticised liberal politicians as much as those on the right.[116]

Oliver has expressed support for LGBT and transgender rights,[117][118][119] abortion rights,[120][121] immigration reform (particularly making access to immigration systems easier),[122][123] criminal justice reform (particularly stopping wrongful convictions and harmful prison labour),[124][125][126] police reform,[127][128] Medicare for All,[129][130] net neutrality,[131][132] legalization of marijuana,[133][134] and gun control.[135] He has expressed opposition to the death penalty and lethal injections,[136][137] solitary confinement,[138] and US drone strikes.[139][140]

He's sound politically but unfortunately, despite being a Brum, he's a glory seeking Kopite.

 

[Amw79]

Yeah, I googled him after to see is I was gonna get ripped for using him.

He seems a decent sort.


Oliver was opposed to Brexit, making multiple pieces about it and calling it "painful, it's pointless, and most of you didn't even agree to run it; you were just signed up by your dumbest friend". He also found it "sad" to consider that his children with British citizenship would not experience the benefits of the EU.[107] He has also been particularly critical of the British Conservative Party, and of Boris Johnson when he was Prime Minister of the UK.[108] In November 2022, he made a piece criticising the British monarchy, stating "we've long evolved past needing them".[109] He also criticised the Royal Family's secrecy concerning their wealth, calling them "a freeloading multimillionaire family exempt from paying most taxes" and stating that "the Royal Family's wealth ― unlike its gene pool ― is massive".[110] Oliver is reportedly in favour of Britain becoming a Republic.[111] Oliver declined an Order of the British Empire.[111] On a September 2022 edition of Late Night with Seth Meyers, he said he declined the award because he didn't want his name being associated with the words "British Empire", and expressed distaste for the British class system.[112]

In American politics, Oliver favoured Joe Biden for president in the 2020 election, later celebrating his victory over Donald Trump. He warned that "more than 70 million people voted for [Trump] and everything he said and stands for, and that is something we are going to have to reckon with for the foreseeable future".[113] Oliver has been strongly critical of Trump and the Republican Party on Last Week Tonight.[114][115] Politico argued that Oliver criticised liberal politicians as much as those on the right.[116]

Oliver has expressed support for LGBT and transgender rights,[117][118][119] abortion rights,[120][121] immigration reform (particularly making access to immigration systems easier),[122][123] criminal justice reform (particularly stopping wrongful convictions and harmful prison labour),[124][125][126] police reform,[127][128] Medicare for All,[129][130] net neutrality,[131][132] legalization of marijuana,[133][134] and gun control.[135] He has expressed opposition to the death penalty and lethal injections,[136][137] solitary confinement,[138] and US drone strikes.[139][140]

Oliver used to do a political Podcast with another British comedian Andy Zaltzman, called The Bugle, which still runs today with Zaltzman and different co-hosts.

Interesting thing about Oliver, is that producers in this country were looking to do a British version of The Daily show and were touting round for a satirical, political host. Every person they spoke to recommended Oliver, but they didn’t like his accent, so ditched the project.

Oliver then went on to work for the Daily Show in the US, and eventually his own hugely successful show, and is a household name in the US, and Britain lost a fantastic satirical voice.

As others pointed out though, he is sadly a Kopite (think one of his parents is from Liverpool).

 

[Charro]

Did he say cockwomble in that?

Can’t believe this type of stuff still gains traction in 2024.

The usually suspects will lap that up.

 

[Sean Ashley]

Be my guest.

From what I can see Dave has been pretty staunch of his defending the Trans community.

Davek isn't transphobic far from it. We just need to stop going over the minor details of the policy, as a stick to beat a party or MP with and actually see what it means for the individuals affected.

Davek rightly stated a few years ago in the JK Rowling thread that it a a marginalised group against media and political powers who hold all the cards.

The reason that is important is the type of news articles that get sent out to millions of readers. Is from an angle of why trans are a danger to different sections of society. From women's space to schools to women's sport.

The only way these issues can be resolved is with compromise from both sides and not to escalate these debates to lose focus of what is important.

 

[davek]

From what I can see Dave has been pretty staunch of his defending the Trans community.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

To those who question his readiness to be prime minister, Sir Keir Starmer has a message: look at how he has run the opposition. “I have changed this Labour Party, dragged it back to service, and I will do exactly the same for Westminster,” he told a rally early on in the general-election campaign. It is true that the best clues to his modus operandi are found in the way in which his party has been slowly remade. Less certain is how well this method would work if he leads Labour to victory on July 4th.

The transformation of the party under Sir Keir has been remarkable. In the last election in 2019, under Jeremy Corbyn, a leftist, it won 202 seats, its lowest total since 1935. The following year, with Sir Keir installed as the party’s new leader, a report by Labour Together, a pro-Starmer caucus, warned that a long-term seepage of working-class support could cost it dozens more seats. Campaign funds were being consumed by investigations into allegations of antisemitism and of data-protection breaches, and by litigation from former employees. The tentacles of the hard left were wrapped tightly around the party.

For Sir Keir’s circle, the job of reclaiming the party for the centre-left began with a cultural critique. Mr Corbyn, as they saw it, was merely the symptom of a party whose priorities had become warped. It had elevated its members’ views over the public’s. A party founded as an “instrument of power” for the working classes had become an “expression of virtue” for progressive activists. Labour was more of a t-shirt than a party of government.

Being serious about regaining power implied several things. Labour had to try to get back into office in a single parliamentary term: those who claimed it would take a decade were dodging hard choices. It had to abandon the fatalism that said Labour’s old heartlands in northern England and Scotland had been lost to the Tories and the Scottish National Party. And Sir Keir would need to breach Labour norms about prioritising party unity.

To understand how he went about this task, you have to look at his career before politics. Sir Keir only entered Parliament in 2015, when he was already in his 50s. Before then, as a barrister working at the frontiers of human-rights law, he took on cases in areas such as the death penalty that he thought would lead to systemic change. And as the head of Britain’s public prosecutor, he styled himself as a reformist administrator who improved the service in an era of spending cuts.

A conventional politician, says Tom Baldwin, a former Labour official and author of “Keir Starmer: the Biography”, will set out a grand vision and then compromise with reality as obstacles emerge. Sir Keir, by contrast, tends to start with the most obvious mechanisms, and becomes iteratively more radical if they are found wanting. It is, says Mr Baldwin, a “common-law” approach, “a series of judgments based on values which slowly forms the jurisprudence, not a Napoleonic code derived from some great principles”.

The remaking of Labour operated via a ratchet. “He’s not iconoclastic and he doesn’t go around saying, ‘I’m going to smash things up’,” is the verdict of one party official. “He always says ‘let’s give everyone the benefit of the doubt, lead them properly, put systems in place’.” It was only after a by-election defeat in Hartlepool in May 2021 that he became convinced that Labour needed stronger medicine.

The process is oddly unnarrated. When he was in opposition Sir Tony Blair made great hay of his largely symbolic reforms to Labour’s “Clause IV”, which ended the party’s constitutional commitment to nationalisation. Take the more consequential changes that Sir Keir secured to the party’s rulebook in 2021, which weakened the influence of Labour members. These reforms were tabled at the party’s conference without fanfare, and when they passed, he did not bother to mention them in his speech afterwards. His opponents, like unwitting frogs, were boiled slowly. Sir Keir’s leadership began with left-wing Labour mps in the shadow cabinet; it has since seen the expulsion of Mr Corbyn and a last-minute purge of firebrand candidates in favour of Starmerite loyalists.

On ideology, Sir Keir has travelled light. The most consistent thread has been a self-confessed desire to get the party into power. As a candidate to lead the party in 2020, Sir Keir wooed the Labour selectorate with a Corbyn-lite pitch (“Defend migrants’ rights”; “No more illegal wars”). But once in the job, he changed his focus to target swing voters in the provinces. One Labour official uses another legal analogy: that of a barrister taking on briefs for different clients and different juries. His defenders argue that this flexibility is a virtue: whereas Mr Corbyn took rigid positions on every question, Sir Keir is deliberative. “It’s not about the colour of the machine, or how inspiring it is, or whether it is modern or old, but whether it works,” says Mr Baldwin.

In some respects, Sir Keir can apply this template to government. As with the overhaul of the party, a cultural critique serves as the starting-point. Britain’s problems, in Sir Keir’s telling, stem from a governing class that has become self-serving and inert; under Labour there would be an ascetic emphasis on ethics. Another change in focus would be needed, this time from swing voters to the country at large. The ratchet would be required, too. There is a gulf in Labour’s manifesto between its five long-term “missions”, such as achieving the highest sustained productivity growth in the g7, and the more trifling measures it has identified as “first steps”. He will again need to become more radical.

The big question is how well a project to save the Labour Party can translate into government. Many of its positions—hawkishness on fiscal deficits, toughness on crime—have been more about closing gaps in Labour’s electoral appeal than about providing axioms to govern by. The lack of a well-understood project is why internal party disputes—such as over workers’ rights, or the scale of a green-subsidy programme—have been resolved with painful slowness. In government Sir Keir cannot afford to be as sluggish.

Similarly, the absence of a narrative is fine when fighting for internal control of a party; it is a problem when trying to steer a government composed of hundreds of mps and thousands of civil servants. Sir Keir has successfully transformed his party through a mixture of pragmatism and ratcheting ruthlessness. Remaking an entire country will be a lot harder.

Interesting piece in The Economist https://www.economist.com/britain/2...king-of-labour-reveals-about-sir-keir-starmer

 

[davek]

They've got themselves into a mess over the transgender issue.

 

[Amw79]

They've got themselves into a mess over the transgender issue.

Not really. The wizard writer decided to resurrect the issue during an election campaign, by writing a column for the Times, likely cos she wants to benefit from the massive tax cut the Tories have promised her.

Now people, led by the nose by News Corp, want to turn it into a culture war election. Standard right wing playbook.

 

[Walken]

Oliver used to do a political Podcast with another British comedian Andy Zaltzman, called The Bugle, which still runs today with Zaltzman and different co-hosts.

Interesting thing about Oliver, is that producers in this country were looking to do a British version of The Daily show and were touting round for a satirical, political host. Every person they spoke to recommended Oliver, but they didn’t like his accent, so ditched the project.

Oliver then went on to work for the Daily Show in the US, and eventually his own hugely successful show, and is a household name in the US, and Britain lost a fantastic satirical voice.

As others pointed out though, he is sadly a Kopite (think one of his parents is from Liverpool).

He was one of the best side characters on community

 

[mmmmsnouts]

As others pointed out though, he is sadly a Kopite (think one of his parents is from Liverpool).

His father basically forced him to, proper cult behavior. He's said in a podcast here that he could be anything he wanted, except for supporting a team that wasn't Liverpool.

 

[davek]

Not really. The wizard writer decided to resurrect the issue during an election campaign, by writing a column for the Times, likely cos she wants to benefit from the massive tax cut the Tories have promised her.

Now people, led by the nose by News Corp, want to turn it into a culture war election. Standard right wing playbook.

'Right wing playbook'?

There's nothing between them n this issue as with most other issues.