Current Affairs The Labour Party

[JimmyJeffers]

I'd say that perhaps the bigger thing was the hysteria about tuition fees among the well to do middle classes, as that sank Clegg and the LDs ability to temper the Tories in government, leaving Cameron with the only people to pander to was the right of his party, hence why he promised the referendum in the next election.

It’s not spoken about much in terms of ‘sliding doors’ moments, but Clegg’s decision to take such an active role in the coalition set the LibDems back 20 years and destroyed all the momentum they had gained prior to that election.

Think things would have taken a different direction for British politics if they had taken much more of a back seat role or played no part at all.

 

[davek]

Didn't you back the Lib-Con coalition and Swinford's lack of compromise which led to a nutter led form of Brexit ?

What's that got to do with my question?

lol lol lol

@orchard got you bang to rights there, Bruce.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It’s not spoken about much in terms of ‘sliding doors’ moments, but Clegg’s decision to take such an active role in the coalition set the LibDems back 20 years and destroyed all the momentum they had gained prior to that election.

Think things would have taken a different direction for British politics if they had taken much more of a back seat role or played no part at all.

To be fair, there was an obvious incentive for them to do so as they hadn't been in government for so long, and there were also many calling for them to be active in order to temper any Tory excesses.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh that's an easy one to answer:

• Create a nationalised energy company
• End outsourcing in the NHS and local government
• Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners
• Defend freedom of movement for EU citizens
• Scrap tuition fees
• End the two-child limit on tax credit
• Scrap Universal Credit
• Scrap private schools' charitable status
• Commit £28B investment to help build a green economy
• Fully implement the New Deal for Workers

....in other words, I'd carry out all the policies Starmer won his Labour leadership election on but has binned in a series of u-turns.

They seem to be doing a chunk of those, don't they? I presume the Greens are pledging to do them all?

 

[davek]

They seem to be doing a chunk of those, don't they? I presume the Greens are pledging to do them all?

Are they? Which ones are they doing?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The nationalised energy company and private schools thing were two, I thought.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

It’s not spoken about much in terms of ‘sliding doors’ moments, but Clegg’s decision to take such an active role in the coalition set the LibDems back 20 years and destroyed all the momentum they had gained prior to that election.

Think things would have taken a different direction for British politics if they had taken much more of a back seat role or played no part at all.

I've not voted for them since in a GE

I think I voted for a Lib Dem MEP candidate at one stage because they are at least Pro Europe, but never in a GE situation

I felt swindled by what they did. A genuine betrayal

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Oh that's an easy one to answer:

• Create a nationalised energy company
• End outsourcing in the NHS and local government
• Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners
• Defend freedom of movement for EU citizens
• Scrap tuition fees
• End the two-child limit on tax credit
• Scrap Universal Credit
• Scrap private schools' charitable status
• Commit £28B investment to help build a green economy
• Fully implement the New Deal for Workers

....in other words, I'd carry out all the policies Starmer won his Labour leadership election on but has binned in a series of u-turns.

I'm surprised you're not scrapping Trident

 

[orchard]

Oh that's an easy one to answer:

• Create a nationalised energy company
• End outsourcing in the NHS and local government
• Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners
• Defend freedom of movement for EU citizens
• Scrap tuition fees
• End the two-child limit on tax credit
• Scrap Universal Credit
• Scrap private schools' charitable status
• Commit £28B investment to help build a green economy
• Fully implement the New Deal for Workers

....in other words, I'd carry out all the policies Starmer won his Labour leadership election on but has binned in a series of u-turns.

I'd probably vote for a party with integrity running with this, although I do have reservations with those that i've bolded.
i) Two kids are enough imo, overshoot's a thing and we should encourage responsibility in some way at least. I'm not really sure what tax credits are, but I'm assuming they're like child benefit.
ii) Total FoM right now is far too contentious. Acceptable trading standards and removal of tory introduced barriers-to-trade for SME's are far more important imo.
iii) Hitting the middle-class again is counter-productive, maybe raising the top rate (well above the 5pc) a bit, but income tax isn't where one ought to be focussing for increasing tax burdens.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'd probably vote for a party with integrity running with this, although I do have reservations with those that i've bolded.
i) Two kids are enough imo, overshoot's a thing and we should encourage responsibility in some way at least. I'm not really sure what tax credits are, but I'm assuming they're like child benefit.
ii) Total FoM right now is far too contentious. Acceptable trading standards and removal of tory introduced barriers-to-trade for SME's are far more important imo.
iii) Hitting the middle-class again is counter-productive, maybe raising the top rate (well above the 5pc) a bit, but income tax isn't where one ought to be focussing for increasing tax burdens.

The freeze in tax thresholds in recent years has put 40% more people into the upper threshold.

 

[orchard]

The freeze in tax thresholds in recent years has put 40% more people into the upper threshold.

Yeah, so the top 5pc= C80K. That's patently too low to target imo, and currently sits at a 40pc levy, whereas the 120k threshold is only 45pc and could be tweaked somewhat. Let none of this detract from my core point though, and I believe it's very important, we have a distribution issue but it's not within the worker/PAYE arena, that's a bucket of crabs of a distraction.

 

[mightymoyes]

Is the bill really that bad? Seems like most licensing organisations etc feel it would save lives and have a positive effect on road safety.

I'd be interested in reading more on the research behind the legisaltion rather than just hammering it because white van man gets angry

why would white van man care if youngsters living in the countryside have their freedom curtailed or a 24 year old can't drive his partner to the hospital?

 

[davek]

I'm surprised you're not scrapping Trident

...I'm surprised too.

 

[davek]

I'd probably vote for a party with integrity running with this, although I do have reservations with those that i've bolded.
i) Two kids are enough imo, overshoot's a thing and we should encourage responsibility in some way at least. I'm not really sure what tax credits are, but I'm assuming they're like child benefit.
ii) Total FoM right now is far too contentious. Acceptable trading standards and removal of tory introduced barriers-to-trade for SME's are far more important imo.
iii) Hitting the middle-class again is counter-productive, maybe raising the top rate (well above the 5pc) a bit, but income tax isn't where one ought to be focussing for increasing tax burdens.

On freedom of movement, Brexit is in the bin and there's very little political downside now to carrying out what Starmer first promised. But he won't, because he was never ideologically driven by that (or anything else) in any case.

 

[Walken]

why would white van man care if youngsters living in the countryside have their freedom curtailed or a 24 year old can't drive his partner to the hospital?

It's could easily become part of the false war on motorists narrative.

By the way I believe the restrictions don't apply to medical emergencies, nor do I believe national road safety policy should be governed by the supposed freedom for 6 months of a few teenagers out in the sticks