Current Affairs The Labour Party

[Tubey]

Aren't Labour ahead in the polls?

1% ahead or tied overall in polls conducted over the last few weeks, and until July the Tories were actually ahead... somehow.

Corbyn is 5 to 10% behind May in head-to-head polls in terms of suitability to be PM.

At this point, the opposition should be 10%+ clear in polls and given the uniquely bad situation May is in and her incompetence, the leader of the opposition should be utterly smashing her to bits.

Neither is happening.

 

[dholliday]

Nothing in this.

ffs, that's so blatant...I wonder how much Chinn is 'donating' to the media too? The anti-Corbyn agenda is being paid for, no doubt.

 

[tsubaki]

1% ahead or tied overall in polls conducted over the last few weeks, and until July the Tories were actually ahead... somehow.

Corbyn is 5 to 10% behind May in head-to-head polls in terms of suitability to be PM.

At this point, the opposition should be 10%+ clear in polls and given the uniquely bad situation May is in and her incompetence, the leader of the opposition should be utterly smashing her to bits.

Neither is happening.

... and why isn't it happening? It couldn't possibly because every time Labour starts to get ahead of May in the polls, the usual suspects in the PLP kick something off?

 

[tsubaki]

Nothing in this.

I'd be very wary of sharing that sort of thing - Watson actually gets donations from all over the place so to give an edited list like that and suggest he is doing this at the direction of a Jewish businessman is exactly the sort of anti-semitism that should be exposed and challenged.

 

[dholliday]

And yet, when faced with one of the most useless Prime Ministers in UK history, Corbyn still is consistently behind May, poll after poll, when asked who would make the best Prime Minister, while the party overall does slightly better but still miles off where they should be given the circumstances.

Do you know any Tory-voting or Brexit-supporting folk? Theresa May doesn't have the "most useless" rep you think she does.

In addition to that, the people who vote Tory will still vote Tory, even if Boris was leader.

Corbyn did well to close the gap, and how he has a full election cycle to bag the win. I'd really like UK to give it a go, and Rayner is a pretty solid number 2 candidate. She's been there and done what normal people experience (teenage mum, worked in care) and is doing good work as an MP.

Get rid of Watson, who's divisive. Promote Rayner. Admit Abbott is out-of-her-depth and get someone serious for Shadow Home Secretary. Find an ally in the media who promote journalism which exposes the anti-Corbyn agenda for what is it: paid for. Continue to engage young people.

I've got faith Labour could win, a lot depends on how/when/if Brexit happens.

 

[dholliday]

I'd be very wary of sharing that sort of thing - Watson actually gets donations from all over the place so to give an edited list like that and suggest he is doing this at the direction of a Jewish businessman is exactly the sort of anti-semitism that should be exposed and challenged.

also a good point, but as well as who they're from it's also the amount, regularity & recipient of those donations which raise eyebrows. By most objective analysis Labour doesn't really have a serious issue with anti-semitism, and criticism of Israeli-policy isn't it. It really does look like agenda designed to weaken Corbyn's position.

We had similar, tho' not on the same scale and not the same topic, agenda against Gordon Brown when he became PM. It seems the establishment aren't keen on a Labour leader having socialist ideals who understands the working class.

 

[Tubey]

I'd be very wary of sharing that sort of thing - Watson actually gets donations from all over the place so to give an edited list like that and suggest he is doing this at the direction of a Jewish businessman is exactly the sort of anti-semitism that should be exposed and challenged.

Indeed. This is actually the problem that Corbynites/left wing subversion of the Labour party has resulted in in terms of anti-semitism; the anti capitalist, global Jewish conspiracy type of argument that people of that particular political persuasion tend to have. It's no coincidence that Corbyn once voiced support of an anti Jewish mural because he saw it as anti-capitalist first and foremost.

And thus there is the disconnect, as they don't see it as anti-semitism; they see it as anti-capitalism. So a lot of it is accidental anti-semitism in a way because they are politically ingrained to be that way. Doesn't excuse it, because it doesn't make it right, but it is what it is - and it makes it a harder thing to solve.

I'm still waiting to hear what exactly Watson said that is so offensive too. I must have missed it, because the comments I've read were just standard opinion and largely common sense, so I've definitely missed something truly horrific that he has said.

 

[tsubaki]

also a good point, but as well as who they're from it's also the amount, regularity & recipient of those donations which raise eyebrows. By most objective analysis Labour doesn't really have a serious issue with anti-semitism, and criticism of Israeli-policy isn't it. It really does look like agenda designed to weaken Corbyn's position.

Not really, no.

In some ways this is like the Asian grooming scandal being discussed on the Tommy Robinson thread - in that the amount, regularity and identity of the thing in question (be it number of offences or amounts donated) only really becomes important when you carefully filter everything else out and fit it around an argument you want to promote. Watson gets donations from everywhere and some of them are very questionable (the nearly four grand Wimbledon tickets for a start), so the fact that Chinn gives him money (which he also gives to a lot of other Labour MPs) doesn't really suggest anything except that Chinn wants to support some MPs.

We had similar, tho' not on the same scale and not the same topic, agenda against Gordon Brown when he became PM. It seems the establishment aren't keen on a Labour leader having socialist ideals who understands the working class.

To be fair to the establishment, Brown actually was that rubbish.

 

[Joey66]

Rather Watson goes than Corbyn. He doesn't add anything to Labour's electability.

Who else might be a useful number 2?

Dianne Abott then the duo could be called Abbot and Costello a pair of clowns ......
Just pick a decent leader and gain power ......

 

[tsubaki]

And thus there is the disconnect, as they don't see it as anti-semitism; they see it as anti-capitalism. So a lot of it is accidental anti-semitism in a way because they are politically ingrained to be that way. Doesn't excuse it, because it doesn't make it right, but it is what it is - and it makes it a harder thing to solve.

I really don't think that is the case, at least with this issue (the older crowd who go on about Zio and whatnot on the other hand) - I did say this a few days ago, but I think people see the various luminaries of LFI attacking Corbyn for the umpeenth time and assume this is about Israel when the reality is that its calling Corbyn anti-semitic that is the one thing they've done in their campaign against him that has had some traction.

 

[Joey66]

Indeed. This is actually the problem that Corbynites/left wing subversion of the Labour party has resulted in in terms of anti-semitism; the anti capitalist, global Jewish conspiracy type of argument that people of that particular political persuasion tend to have. It's no coincidence that Corbyn once voiced support of an anti Jewish mural because he saw it as anti-capitalist first and foremost.

And thus there is the disconnect, as they don't see it as anti-semitism; they see it as anti-capitalism. So a lot of it is accidental anti-semitism in a way because they are politically ingrained to be that way. Doesn't excuse it, because it doesn't make it right, but it is what it is - and it makes it a harder thing to solve.

I'm still waiting to hear what exactly Watson said that is so offensive too. I must have missed it, because the comments I've read were just standard opinion and largely common sense, so I've definitely missed something truly horrific that he has said.

Just seen the news Corbyn is signing up to the anti semitism universal guide to all decent organisations and countries yet has one clause missing over Israel - this leader is a fool and a clown of the highest order - he can't sign up to it as he has broke that clause so many times on Israel .......
In his whole career!

 

[Tubey]

Just seen the news Corbyn is signing up to the anti semitism universal guide to all decent organisations and countries yet has one clause missing over Israel - this leader is a fool and a clown of the highest order - he can't sign up to it as he has broke that clause so many times on Israel .......
In his whole career!

To be completely honest though mate, he's actually right on this. There's a few clauses that are badly worded and can act to defend the nation state of Israel from criticism rather than those of the Jewish faith more broadly.

It's not that that's the issue for me - it's his pure, baffling incompetence in being able to state why he's excluding those clauses. He could have easily said exactly why - make a case for it and explained it isn't anti-semitism to disagree with the actions of Israel - but he can't bring himself to do it, because he thinks that would mean the Labour party would take an anti-Israel position because the leader has made that call, so he's preferred to leave it ambiguous and let his foot soldiers attack as per usual.

So once again it's just yet another example of Corbyn being a comically bad leader, except on a General Election campaign trail, where he morphs into a bloody genius.

 

[dholliday]

Not really, no.

In some ways this is like the Asian grooming scandal being discussed on the Tommy Robinson thread - in that the amount, regularity and identity of the thing in question (be it number of offences or amounts donated) only really becomes important when you carefully filter everything else out and fit it around an argument you want to promote. Watson gets donations from everywhere and some of them are very questionable (the nearly four grand Wimbledon tickets for a start), so the fact that Chinn gives him money (which he also gives to a lot of other Labour MPs) doesn't really suggest anything except that Chinn wants to support some MPs.



To be fair to the establishment, Brown actually was that rubbish.

My turn to say not really, no

In that thread figures were linked which proved a certain demographic were way over-represented in a certain type of child abuse.

Potentially same principle with the Watson donations. Chinn is associated with the LFI and they as well as Corbyn's Labour both support a two-state solution, so there really shouldn't be much anti-semitism murmuring about if they're all on the same page. These murmurings have become a full-blown (yet somewhat artificial) scandal which are harming Corbyn's position, so it's natural to point the finger at pro-Israeli lobbies donating regular monies to rivals to his leadership.

There is a pattern there, but it's not clear exactly what's going on, feels like there's a missing piece or three, hence why I also said your point is a good one (not to cherry-pick to fit own agendas).

Just seen the news Corbyn is signing up to the anti semitism universal guide to all decent organisations and countries yet has one clause missing over Israel - this leader is a fool and a clown of the highest order - he can't sign up to it as he has broke that clause so many times on Israel .......
In his whole career!

What clause is missing?

 

[Number_25]

I'd be very wary of sharing that sort of thing - Watson actually gets donations from all over the place so to give an edited list like that and suggest he is doing this at the direction of a Jewish businessman is exactly the sort of anti-semitism that should be exposed and challenged.

I'm literally a Jew.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Nothing in this.

If we're playing that game, Corbyn has received a donation from this bloke, who has been accused of anti-semitism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Honderich#Controversy