Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

Because I want to get rid of the Tories.

...so when you were voting Lib Dem it was the same as someone voting Green?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Minimum salary cap about to rise for foreign workers as well as restrictions on how many dependents can come with. QT last week highlighted the distress in care homes this will cause.

Not to mention the pickle universities will be in if student numbers are cut. Immigration is nearly always a wonderful thing, hence why numbers are pretty high. Perhaps if the government could stop constructing policies off of newspaper headlines it would be a start.

Think it was in the Guardian I read an analysis along the lines of the current high immigration levels being due to Brexit. EU workers were more transitory and often didn't bring families. Recruiting from further afield sees more migratory patterns where folk want to stay longer and bring their families. It's rational - it's a bigger move, harder to get back home relatively quickly, arguably better long term prospects in settling etc.

So yes, they're screeching at a problem of their own making.

I wouldn't say it's even a problem tbh. If your neighbour is from Macclesfield or Mumbai, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

...so when you were voting Lib Dem it was the same as someone voting Green?

My borough has been either LD or Labour for decades. I think my vote at the last election was primarily based on Brexit, as one leader wanted to reverse it and the other had campaigned his entire life to leave. For better or worse, I also know Swinson personally, and while I don't think she'd have been a good prime minister whatsoever, there was a degree of loyalty.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Not to mention the pickle universities will be in if student numbers are cut. Immigration is nearly always a wonderful thing, hence why numbers are pretty high. Perhaps if the government could stop constructing policies off of newspaper headlines it would be a start.

I wouldn't say it's even a problem tbh. If your neighbour is from Macclesfield or Mumbai, it doesn't really matter.

Well yes, I should have phrased it 'problem'.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

No, I haven't gt it. But it doesn't mean I don't think that calling one person a crackpot and loony is a valid way of debating.

Perhaps you cold reflect on that.

That's better Dave, don't resort to straw man arguments weaponising disabilities. Maybe you should reflect on that?

Weird for such a 'principled' poster.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Well yes, I should have phrased it 'problem'.

Even the whole narrative around asylum seekers I find baffling tbh. You have people, often with a decent amount of money behind them so presumably somewhat educated, undergoing the most horrendous journey imaginable to come here. I know from bog standard migrants that when they move somewhere, it's such a big step that they work really hard to make it a success. It's even more so when you've risked your life to come here, yet the narrative around them is that these people are workshy vermin coming to leech off of us. It's utterly bewildering.

 

[davek]

My borough has been either LD or Labour for decades. I think my vote at the last election was primarily based on Brexit, as one leader wanted to reverse it and the other had campaigned his entire life to leave. For better or worse, I also know Swinson personally, and while I don't think she'd have been a good prime minister whatsoever, there was a degree of loyalty.

But generally speaking you've voted Lib Dem knowing that they won't come to power nationally. You're done that because you could;t go with Labour of Tories.

So only you now believe that a tactical vote is the right way for you...after 13 years of terrible Tory policies and when there's been 3 GEs.

My suggestion is that you're not switching to Labour because of any greater repulsion toward the Tories you're switching to Labour actively.

So what's the basis for that switch?

 

[davek]

That's better Dave, don't resort to straw man arguments weaponising disabilities. Maybe you should reflect on that?

Weird for such a 'principled' poster.

If that's your apology, it's pathetic but I'll take it.

 

[Goat]

No, I haven't gt it. But it doesn't mean I don't think that calling one person a crackpot and loony is a valid way of debating.

Perhaps you cold reflect on that.

You are a crackpot with crackpot ideas.

I say this as somebody who suffers mental health issues, mine don't make me think Starmer is an MI5 plant sent by Thatcher from the past.

WBU

 

[davek]

Even the whole narrative around asylum seekers I find baffling tbh. You have people, often with a decent amount of money behind them so presumably somewhat educated, undergoing the most horrendous journey imaginable to come here. I know from bog standard migrants that when they move somewhere, it's such a big step that they work really hard to make it a success. It's even more so when you've risked your life to come here, yet the narrative around them is that these people are workshy vermin coming to leech off of us. It's utterly bewildering.

It's only bewildering to a political ingenue.

Those people are framed that way for a purpose: traditionally one major party has profited from it at the polls.

The shame of it now is that the Former Labour Party embrace this attitude to migrant workers. They just want them caught before they arrive here and held in a concentration camp in France rather than seeing them arrive here and being flow out to Rwanda.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But generally speaking you've voted Lib Dem knowing that they won't come to power nationally. You're done that because you could;t go with Labour of Tories.

So only you now believe that a tactical vote is the right way for you...after 13 years of terrible Tory policies and when there's been 3 GEs.

My suggestion is that you're not switching to Labour because of any greater repulsion toward the Tories you're switching to Labour actively.

So what's the basis for that switch?

I wouldn't say there hasn't been a significant increase in my repulsion toward the Tories, certainly comparing them under Cameron to the utter car crash seen since Johnson took office. That started under May as there was a clear break from the social liberalism under Cameron to move toward a much more socially conservative place under her. Had Labour had a Blairite leader rather than Corbyn I would have shifted earlier, and it's perfectly possible that I actually did as I can't honestly recall who I've voted for over the years. By and large it doesn't make a great deal of difference either way, so I tend to focus on areas where I can make more of a difference.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's only bewildering to a political ingenue.

Those people are framed that way for a purpose: traditionally one major party has profited from it at the polls.

The shame of it now is that the Former Labour Party embrace this attitude to migrant workers. They just want them caught before they arrive here and held in a concentration camp in France rather than seeing them arrive here and being flow out to Rwanda.

The likes of Corbyn and Benn have always been against migration too Dave, but not for racist reasons. Instead, their argument revolved around the supposed undercutting of domestic workers. Indeed, there's a reasonable argument that those who lived under state socialism are generally more opposed to immigration than those who did not.

The legacy of state socialism on attitudes toward immigration

Does the politico–economic system affect preferences for immigration? In this study, I show that individuals exposed to life under state socialism hav…

www.sciencedirect.com

Fear of the other is a trope as old as time.

 

[davek]

You are a crackpot with crackpot ideas.

I say this as somebody who suffers mental health issues, mine don't make me think Starmer is an MI5 plant sent by Thatcher from the past.

WBU

You don't have to 'believe' Starmer worked hand in glove with MI5 it's all documented.

That's the difference between assertion and facts.

Starmer as DPP allowed its chief 'Sir' Jonathan Evans to get off scot-free after MI5 had been in attendance as a British-Pakistani man was tortured in Pakistan.

'Insufficient evidence' against MI5 officer over torture claims

An MI5 officer will not be prosecuted over claims he was complicit in the torture of former Guantanamo Bay detainee Binyam Mohamed.

www.independent.co.uk

Starmer is quite 'convivial' with MI5 and its chief.

Revealed: After clearing MI5 of torture, Keir Starmer attended its chief’s leaving party

The year after Starmer protected Sir Jonathan Evans from possible prosecution over MI5’s role in CIA torture, the then senior public prosecutor went to the spymaster’s farewell drinks, paid for by MI5.

www.declassifieduk.org

As said: Manchurian Candidate.

 

[davek]

The likes of Corbyn and Benn have always been against migration too Dave, but not for racist reasons. Instead, their argument revolved around the supposed undercutting of domestic workers. Indeed, there's a reasonable argument that those who lived under state socialism are generally more opposed to immigration than those who did not.

The legacy of state socialism on attitudes toward immigration

Does the politico–economic system affect preferences for immigration? In this study, I show that individuals exposed to life under state socialism hav…

www.sciencedirect.com

Fear of the other is a trope as old as time.

How on earth can you equate a policy of internationalism and the de-colonisation of the places those migrants come from to prevent them having to make the hazardous journeys to Europe with the openly vindictive and racist filth of the Tories and Starmer's 'Labour'?

 

[davek]

I wouldn't say there hasn't been a significant increase in my repulsion toward the Tories, certainly comparing them under Cameron to the utter car crash seen since Johnson took office. That started under May as there was a clear break from the social liberalism under Cameron to move toward a much more socially conservative place under her. Had Labour had a Blairite leader rather than Corbyn I would have shifted earlier, and it's perfectly possible that I actually did as I can't honestly recall who I've voted for over the years. By and large it doesn't make a great deal of difference either way, so I tend to focus on areas where I can make more of a difference.

Well, only you know, but I'd further suggest that you've made the move from Lib Dem to Starmer's lot because it's such a small journey to make than usual in economic terms.