peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I think we should leave the manager and players in place and start clearing out some of the fans.......
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I think we should leave the manager and players in place and start clearing out some of the fans.......
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I've thought long and hard over this and I believe the key to success is to win all the matches you take part in.
Radical view......
Bungle
Player Valuation: £90m
Who do you suggest pete?
Eggsyblueskin
Player Valuation: £40m
My two penneth worth ;-
1. I give the manager credit for allowing Lukaku to acheive his best goal tally this season through his coaching of the man and the team. Lukaku has been gabbing about leaving us since he got here, and in the event ,leaving to go to the club he claims to support will be no great surprise.
2. Best of the rest is an achievable and realistic target from where we were the last two seasons. We have improved vastly this season compared to the last just compare the points totals and the home record is the best in donkeys years, as opposed to the worst in our entire history. Some years ago Spurs fans used to envy to our best of the rest position ( though not our manager), it's a base, a stepping off point for the following season and a possible attempt on the teams immediate above us , so I ,personally, am pleased .
3. From where I've been sitting Barkley has indeed improved this season , I've even joined in his standing ovations. He has become a mature professional footballer, integral to our many victories. Whereas prior to this season he has been a lightweight , occasionally brilliant but peripheral figure in regards to the overall team performance.
4. As a basis for a successful season I believe the minimum expectation is to win at home and draw away. So stating that a draw away ,against a team you are in direct competition with , is a strategic minimal objective is correct for me. I realise you prefer a more cavalier approach which is fair enough.
5. To be fair I haven't noticed the bolted to the seat thing, but I will say his management of the games and substitutions have generally been good, and whenever I've glanced at the dugout area he's usually been where I would expect him to be ,on the touch line coaching his team.
6. I totally disagree with your viewpoint here, he has always been honest about his affection and desire to manage Barcelona, wherever he has been. To say any different when questioned would be dishonest, and I would have a much lower opinion of him if he did. I much prefer people who are honest with you, you know where you stand. I despise insincerity, so I am more than happy with this manager in this regard.
Butters first please
I did state I was not going to get into a debate about it, so I won't. You have your point of view, I respect your right to hold it, even though I believe you to be wrong.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Players managers and maybe fans need to stop viewing the club as a stepping stone. From Smith onwards we've had a succession of managers (including the current one) who has spoken about Everton as a shop window for bigger clubs. Lukaku was talking about us in this way almost as soon as he signed. We've had managers happy to call us best of the rest, the only club in the league ever described this way whether we finish 5th or 7th. It has to stop.
The players who have been successful (relatively) here have devoted the best part of their career: Cahill, Ferguson, Coleman etc. Regardless of what you think of their talent you cannot fault that when they stepped on the pitch they wanted to win for Everton not play up for the scouts of the big clubs.
How do we expect to find that extra % that can get you over the line to win stuff if half the squad are sat there thinking 'Rom is only playing for himself, Barkley thinks he's too good for us, our own club captain doesn't think we're good enough for top 4, and the manager is auditioning for Barcelona.
Do you reckon these thoughts ever occurred in the 80s dressing room?
The players who have been successful (relatively) here have devoted the best part of their career: Cahill, Ferguson, Coleman etc. Regardless of what you think of their talent you cannot fault that when they stepped on the pitch they wanted to win for Everton not play up for the scouts of the big clubs.
How do we expect to find that extra % that can get you over the line to win stuff if half the squad are sat there thinking 'Rom is only playing for himself, Barkley thinks he's too good for us, our own club captain doesn't think we're good enough for top 4, and the manager is auditioning for Barcelona.
Do you reckon these thoughts ever occurred in the 80s dressing room?
I'd agree with Dave that I'd prefer the Everton manager not make a comment about a star player having to move on to fulfill his ambition or whatever he said and that they would bat away professionally and non-committedly any questions about any other club whether its their former club or not.
I understand that for most managers they wont ultimately care in depth about whatever clubs they end up managing, and perhaps less so for a manager like Koeman who moves about a fair bit, but he does seem to make it a bit too clear IMHO with his NEA attitude to how he responds to questions.
In fairness though @davek , a lot of this is personal preference as I am sure if you examine all successful league or champions league managers across the big leagues since we last won a trophy you will get all kinds of personality types and flaws. Koeman doesn't have to follow a particular management style, he just has to be successful.
In relation to the OP, I am not yet convinced Koeman has what it takes to give us that extra edge we have lacked for years. That belief to win the big games. I am happy enough with his first season, but not moved much from my view at the start of the season that he wont achieve much here before leaving.
I hope somebody cracks it soon though, as a passionate competitive Everton is a joy to watch and a trophy winning one even better.
I understand that for most managers they wont ultimately care in depth about whatever clubs they end up managing, and perhaps less so for a manager like Koeman who moves about a fair bit, but he does seem to make it a bit too clear IMHO with his NEA attitude to how he responds to questions.
In fairness though @davek , a lot of this is personal preference as I am sure if you examine all successful league or champions league managers across the big leagues since we last won a trophy you will get all kinds of personality types and flaws. Koeman doesn't have to follow a particular management style, he just has to be successful.
In relation to the OP, I am not yet convinced Koeman has what it takes to give us that extra edge we have lacked for years. That belief to win the big games. I am happy enough with his first season, but not moved much from my view at the start of the season that he wont achieve much here before leaving.
I hope somebody cracks it soon though, as a passionate competitive Everton is a joy to watch and a trophy winning one even better.
AndyC
Player Valuation: £70m
Hi Dave,
Thanks for reading the article and venturing your thoughts.
Rather than just bandying 'sound bite' responses via the forum, would you care to respond with a "Homepage Update" rebuttal article of your own on how a manager goes about engendering the intensity and passion required of a winning team ?
You're not daft and you're perfectly capable of communicating calmly and coherently, and I personally think an article would afford you a platform to set your thoughts for readers to consider and discuss a bit more rationaly than just going backwards and forwards in the forum.
Note, I've said a manager not the manager - just so you don't sucker yourself into writing a mammoth anti RK missive, give us your take on how a manager should work.
Cheers,
Andy
AndyC submitted an update to GrandOldTeam's homepage
The Keys to Success - Intensity, Passion, Desire...
The keys to success – Intensity, Passion, Desire.
A summer of squad rebuilding is almost upon us.
The club, media and us the fans will discuss and debate at enormous length what Everton need to offer credible challenges for every competition and trophy next season.
We’ll talk about ‘number one’ goalies, attacking wing backs, centre backs - any number of playing positions where we need to strengthen.
We’ll talk about and we may recruit some of the most attractive names.
Players who can play at a level above that we’ve seen for some years.
But how do you recruit and more importantly maintain intensity, passion and desire?
In recent weeks, especially after the games at West Ham and Swansea, we’ve heard Ronald Koeman quite legitimately and very honestly lament, ‘we didn’t have the right intensity’.
It would be interesting to hear his views on the qualities he looks for in players.
The qualities for him to work with and on in order to create intensity, passion, desire.
What qualities engender an attitude of ‘No way we lose today’.
Look at the champions Chelsea, they have that attitude.
Last season they were a shambles.
What qualities has Antonio Conte instilled and worked on that have swept them to the title?
To a lesser degree, Jose Mourinho has done the same at Old Trafford.
Man United are not great to watch, and they certainly don’t play with the freedom and entertainment value they did under Alex Ferguson.
But they rarely lose, have won a cup, are favourites to win the Europa League and will finish one place ahead of us.
It’s often said that locally born players exude more passion and will run through walls for ‘their’ club and team mates.
It’s probably true; local players will feel more attached to the club and its fan base.
Tom Davies for example appears willing to run through walls for Everton.
But, how does the manager engender that attitude in a squad that will, like most other club squads these days, largely have no actual geographical attachment to the locality?
So how do you instil those qualities... except as a collective?
The players can play and the coaches can continually coach formations and tactics to improve their physical games.
Developing the intensity, passion and desire within the squad to win, win again and win some more is essentially The Job of the manager.
Ronald Koeman had all those qualities as a player in a stellar career.
He’s improved Everton this season.
We’re clearly the best of the rest.
We now need to encroach upon and become ‘the best’.
Ronald, this is arguably the biggest challenge and opportunity of your career.
Ronald, find and sign the players with the qualities to work on and with to develop the intensity, passion and desire.
Ronald, harness those elements into an indomitable spirit to win, win again and win some more.
Do it playing football with style and panache and you won’t need to hanker after the Camp Nou, Bramley Moore will be your Elysium.
If it doesn't come from within, then these days when managers can't 'frighten' (using various 'sticks') players into putting a shift, like the Cloughs etc did.
Or even 'Con' / 'Inspire' / 'Motivate' like the Shankly's did.
Baines' left foot
Player Valuation: £90m
Giving the players grief at every opportunity is surely the only answer?
BOOOOOOOOOO
TURN ROSS
BOOOOOOOOOO
TURN ROSS
Bungle
Player Valuation: £90m
They aren't really soundbites though are they, I see them as genuine reasons as to why Koeman, or any other manager making some of the comments he has might struggle to instil some passion. Would I want to get stuck in and be fully committed to the cause when my manager is undermining and criticising me so openly? Would I be convinced that we were ambitious and a club on the up when 'a manager' tells us that best of the rest is a success?
I much prefer the press conferences and post match stuff to when Martinez was in charge, but of late Koeman comes across as having an ego far beyond his managerial talent and I can't see how that doesn't have an impact when trying to instil the things you mention in your squad.
AndyC
Player Valuation: £70m
That's fine Bungle.
All I'm suggesting is that Dave, as a person with forthright opinions on matters concerning Everton, pen an article of his own.
I'm not trying get smart with him, he's clearly got strong opinions and he's more than articulate enough to express them.
It was just shorthand, not a sleight. If I wanted to insult you, I would have done that.
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