Current Affairs The General Election

Voting Intentions

  • Labour

    Votes: 209 61.1%
  • Tories

    Votes: 30 8.8%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 20 5.8%
  • Brexit Gubbins

    Votes: 8 2.3%
  • Greens

    Votes: 8 2.3%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Change UK, if that's their current moniker

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • SNP

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • DUP

    Votes: 3 0.9%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 2.6%
  • Alliance

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • SDLP

    Votes: 2 0.6%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • Some fringe party with a catchy name

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • A plague on all your houses

    Votes: 32 9.4%

  • Total voters
    342
  • Poll closed .
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Nationalisation. Especially the BT/Openreach thing. Their Chancellor in general, wanting to destroy/replace capitalism.

Their "sort" of socialism is just too extreme for me, and in the past, has always ended badly, despite their best intentions.

I am not saying everything they suggest is poor, (never understood why water was privatised in the first place), its just the whole picture will lead to a huge list of unintended consequences.

And like Johnson, I wouldnt trust Corbyn with a corner shop.

The broadband thing is quite radical I agree. I also think it would be pretty complicated so would probably end up held up over and over and if it happened at all, would end up I some kind of compromise. I don’t see how that particular area could ever spell disaster for the country though realistically.

McDonnell’s last quotes about wanting to destroy capitalism I think were just him playing to the gallery and advocating stuff he never believed he’d ever be in a position to action. I doubt he would actually go about attempting to destroy capitalism once in the Treasury surrounded by the career civil servants though.

People go on about this kind of ‘radical’ socialism being put forward when actually, if you take a look at it rationally and put aside the bluster, it’s just fairly moderate, middle of the road social democracy that the Scandinavians have been practising for years. Remember that if all Labours spending went ahead it would still leave our public spending levels below other big European economies. Hardly think it’s going to be Bolshevism all over again.

I agree that Corbyn is probably highly incompetent but I get the impression he would largely be a figure head without actually doing much day to day.

I don’t think Labours actual policies are that out of the ordinary or radical as the Daily Mail would have us all believe.
 
Nationalisation. Especially the BT/Openreach thing. Their Chancellor in general, wanting to destroy/replace capitalism.

Their "sort" of socialism is just too extreme for me, and in the past, has always ended badly, despite their best intentions.

I am not saying everything they suggest is poor, (never understood why water was privatised in the first place), its just the whole picture will lead to a huge list of unintended consequences.

And like Johnson, I wouldnt trust Corbyn with a corner shop.
What's wrong with Nationalisation?, they should never have sold the utilities in the first place, they belonged to the people of this country.

Sold off by the Tories to prop them up in government, letting the rich buy shares in them and make a killing.

Gas, Water, Electric, Railways, Post Office, all should be taken back and the nailed on billions in profits they make will fund world class health, social care and education.
 
The broadband thing is quite radical I agree. I also think it would be pretty complicated so would probably end up held up over and over and if it happened at all, would end up I some kind of compromise. I don’t see how that particular area could ever spell disaster for the country though realistically.

Yeah sure. Government busting the internet wont be a disaster.

By taking over the internet infrastructure, at a stroke, the other suppliers will melt away, or as their chancellor said, would be "integrated into our arrangement". Its totally bonkers.

The stealing of normal folks shares is a disgrace. And also has wide spread implications.

I dont care what other countries do or dont spend as a % of ABC, cos anyone can pick an abstract stat to make a point.

So there are a few details why I cannot support them/you. I have similar antipathy to the garbage spouted by Johnson.
 
Corbyn doesn't realise all of these taxes for the rich won't happen when they leave the country, Corbyn would have years of mad spending, sticking up for terrorists, cancel Brexit, have a second referendum for Scotland after 2 years and a new referendum for Brexit.

It would be a complete disaster leaving us in a massive debt, same as when labour left the last time after the recession
A Tory and a Kopite.
 
It's not the 1970's anymore mate, these utilities make billions year on year, imagine all that funding the country.

Nationalise them and pass a law saying they can never be sold again.

Thats cos they have to compete. If you have one leccy provider, one gas, etc etc, with absolutely no reason to be competitive nor profitable, with a dash of reformed trade union rules, (another policy I read in their manifesto) all of a sudden it is exactly the 1970s.
 
New Statesman article by Paul Mason:

Ken Loach has called tomorrow’s general election “a fork in the road”. To me it looks more like a T-junction. The atmosphere in which centrist politics worked has evaporated: there can now only be a lurch to the right, to racism, to a chaotic severance with Europe and its values, or a swing to the left.

On the doorstep, the sheer volume of “undecided” voters is a reflection of the fact that most voters are only now realising this, and do not know what to do. They have assumed, because the broadcasters and the perennial centrist talking heads told them so, that a middle way would be found, enabling the Blair-Cameron world to return.

What they want, most of all, is for a new exit to appear, allowing things to continue as before. But they can’t. First, because the geopolitical order is fragmenting. Brexit is one symptom; the paralysis of Nato is another; the abject failure of this week’s COP25 conference in Madrid likewise.


Second, because the neoliberal model is broken. The British financial elite has called forth a new breed of politicians prepared to lie, cheat and spread disinformation because the old ones do not have the guts for what they have to do: launch a chaotic Brexit, destroy the welfare state, sell the NHS to America and attack both the judiciary and the BBC.

Centrism has no explanation for its own eclipse, yet the eclipse is happening fast. The Independent Group for Change, trumpeted as the solution to “broken politics” is polling within a margin of error of zero. Its candidates will disappear from politics by tomorrow night. The Lib Dems, who were polling neck-and-neck with Labour over the summer, are on a downward slope — all delusions about “forming a government” abandoned.
I don’t glory in the sudden radicalisation of British politics, but it is now the sea in which we have to swim. And what’s clear already from the Labour campaign is — win or lose — there will be no going back to the timid technocratism of Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband.

In Birmingham last week I was canvassing with a group of people, many of who had never canvassed before, nor in fact met each other. They were led by a youth worker who wasn’t even a Labour member until Jeremy Corbyn won the leadership. They were supplied with soup by a woman who’d only just joined the party.

For those of us who’ve spent days and nights on the doors, there is no mystery to Labour’s steady rise and apparent last-minute surge. There has never, in the history of British politics, been a digitally-driven and people-powered campaign like this.

Two-thirds of the energy, impetus and know-how is coming from Momentum’s tatty office in London’s Finsbury Park where I counted 30-plus young people hunched over computers this morning, churning out memes and videos and moving canvass teams around a map. The party HQ, too, is buzzing — though with its endless sign-off process and endemic political caution, it still has a lot to learn from the activist base.


To these volunteers, the third and final reason things can’t go back into their box for the left is also obvious. Climate change has placed an absolute deadline on all left projects. If we lose tomorrow, we lose five out of ten of the years we need to attack the carbon emissions of our economy.in

It was said, at the start of this campaign, that the grime artists, actors and pop singers who backed Corbyn in 2017 had moved on and grown cynical of party politics. But glance at your timeline and you can see a flood of cultural output designed to maximise the youth vote.

My sense is that, unlike in 2017, vast numbers of young British people are going to vote for Labour not because Corbyn is cool and different — that vibe has gone — but out of absolute despair at the possibility that a bunch of old racist voters will hand Johnson victory, massively increasing the risk of climate chaos for those who’ll live to see it.

Labour, at the highest levels, has made a full pivot to the zero-carbon framework for its economic policies. It rewired its borrow-to-invest offer around the Green New Deal; scrambled together a highly credible plan for 67,000 jobs, 7,000 wind turbines and 22,000 new solar farms; and overcame trade union scepticism to place this — and not traditional Keynesian industrial policy — at the centre of its manifesto.

Better still, activists on the ground have discovered that — though Corbyn himself is a hard-sell on the doorsteps of small-town, ex-industrial Britain — the Green New Deal is not. Traditional working-class communities like the idea of clean energy, saving the biosphere and good, high-skilled jobs

For all these reasons, I will enter the polling booth tomorrow confident that, even if Johnson wins, the Labour movement’s transformation into a resistance movement and an engine for climate justice is irreversible.

I am sorry to say, to the PPE-trained classes, that the world they were trained to run is about to disappear. We are facing an alliance of the elite and the mob, of the far right and the conservative right, in which there is not even room for figures such as Michael Heseltine, Chris Patten and Amber Rudd.

There is only one answer to that — and it’s an alliance of the centre and the left. And until the centre discovers its radicalism, all the energy in that alliance will have to come from the left.

As the polls narrow, however, it is entirely possible that we end up with a hung parliament, in which Johnson may be able to get his Brexit deal through (with the help of the pro-Brexit Labour MPs that remain) but not to govern. In that case, the Lib Dems will step forward with pleas for continuity with the past; as arbitrators between the radicalism of the left and right. But the radicalisation of politics is logical in a system that cannot work, geared towards an elite that cannot rule without chicanery and fake news.
 
ELgohxYWkAIUjFj.jpg


Yougov have deliberately underestimated the under 35 turnout and that is why their percentages are way off the mark. They've completely ignored 2017 turnout and the under 35s voting intentions.Loaded/weighted it towards older voters. They are treating 2017 as an aberration without making it clear why? That is if they have a reason.. Or is it ti fit in with their 'perceived' wisdom/narrative. Yougov are hoping that this doesn't come back to bite them on the backside and that's why they've slightly backtracked and say it will be close.

They've even gone against their own methodology.

"MRP Methodology, Tables and Figures Prepared for YouGov on 10 December 2019 by • Benjamin Lauderdale (University College London) • Jack Blumenau (University College London) This report summarises the current electoral situation in the United Kingdom in advance of the general election that is due to be held on 12 December 2019. The estimates provided here are based on updated versions of the modelling techniques that we used in the YouGov 2017 UK General Election Model, which correctly predicted the hung parliament and 93% of individual seats. This approach allows us to not just calculate national vote shares, but also to use demographic, geographic and political patterns in support for different parties across the UK to assess their relative performance in each parliamentary constituency".

A hung parliament is the most likely outcome and maybe some surprises like Raab losing seat and maybe even Johnson.
 
ELgohxYWkAIUjFj.jpg


Yougov have deliberately underestimated the under 35 turnout and that is why their percentages are way off the mark. They've completely ignored 2017 turnout and the under 35s voting intentions.Loaded/weighted it towards older voters. They are treating 2017 as an aberration without making it clear why? That is if they have a reason.. Or is it ti fit in with their 'perceived' wisdom/narrative. Yougov are hoping that this doesn't come back to bite them on the backside and that's why they've slightly backtracked and say it will be close.

They've even gone against their own methodology.

"MRP Methodology, Tables and Figures Prepared for YouGov on 10 December 2019 by • Benjamin Lauderdale (University College London) • Jack Blumenau (University College London) This report summarises the current electoral situation in the United Kingdom in advance of the general election that is due to be held on 12 December 2019. The estimates provided here are based on updated versions of the modelling techniques that we used in the YouGov 2017 UK General Election Model, which correctly predicted the hung parliament and 93% of individual seats. This approach allows us to not just calculate national vote shares, but also to use demographic, geographic and political patterns in support for different parties across the UK to assess their relative performance in each parliamentary constituency".

A hung parliament is the most likely outcome and maybe some surprises like Raab losing seat and maybe even Johnson.

Hope you are right mate, at this time, my very undecutad feeling is 1 of crushing defeat.







Yes, I noticed I spelt uneducated wrong, I thought it aided my post.
 
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