canuckblue
Player Valuation: £50m
In a nutshell, yes. If, as Bill maintains, we've had several parties interested, something must be scaring them all off. It's either the price or Bill reminiscing about his old Corrie days.
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In a nutshell, yes. If, as Bill maintains, we've had several parties interested, something must be scaring them all off. It's either the price or Bill reminiscing about his old Corrie days.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I dont see what holding onto 7th place in the table does to Everton's share value. Nothing either way, I expect. If, on the other hand, our pathetic majority owners still had club assets like the training ground and shops to hand over; weren't burdened with long term debt that cant be paid down in a hurry because the long term interest payment is written into the loan; and a commercial operation that wasn't farmed out for the next umpteen years, then maybe someone would take Kenwright and co. seriously when they ask for money for their shares that's multiple times the amount they paid for them.
The club is a hollowed out, financial black hole. Only selling up at little or no price for the shares of the club would any serious interest materialise. This is why many have been railing at the board for years. They've sold the club's future lock, stock and barrel and still remain here, bold as brass with their hands out expecting a massive return on the "investment" they've left to rot.
I've got no hesitation in saying that the various board members who've passed through EFC since tthis lot took over in 1999 are the biggest set of villains in the club's history.
Dave serious question coming now. You campaign tirelessly against the board and quite a bit against Everton in general but you offer nothing in the way of a suitable plan. There have been a lot of take overs and people say 'At least we arent Pompey or Blackburn or whoever'
How many take overs in the last 5 years would you deem successful?
What is the realistic options for Everton to sell and guarantee it doesnt go the way of those clubs?
How many take overs in the last 5 years would you deem successful?
What is the realistic options for Everton to sell and guarantee it doesnt go the way of those clubs?
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
There are no guarantees. And every club has its own possibilities and in-built culture to make the question of what went right or wrong at other clubs post their takeover non-applicable/answerable.
As for plans: our board have been offered them by people willing to put their ideas and hard earned forward, but have been rejected out of hand. The club continually reject investment. They wont countenance a share issue to widen ownership and get money in that way, and they wont countenance reasonable, and business-minded, ventures to revamp Goodison to get extra revenue in that way - ventures such as the Equity Seats Rights scheme that could see the finances sorted out on that score. All reasonable plans outwith an unlikely sheik/oligarch takeover wont be considered because it either reduces the potential profit the board can make on their proportion of share-ownership or else has them having to seriously consider a stadium plan that involves more effort than taking their usual path of grabbing hold of the shirt tails of a private developer and hoping against hope a freebie stadium can result in it.
To be honest, I think that Ian Doyle piece you linked was correct in one respect: if we want change at Everton we'll have to wait until the club is dancing a few seasons on the trap door into the Championship and the natives become restless. That's how Johnson was turfed out, and it's the only way the present lot will be shifted.
It's a pretty grim short-to-medium term future for Everton, I'm afraid.
Im not sure if Im missing something- my understanding is that there have been a few parties in to discuss how Goodison could be redeveloped and how it could possibly be funded. In fact I personally met a guy from a building contractor a couple of years ago who said that had been in talks abour developing GP but came down to foot print and time against loss of money while stands were being developed.
I know the equity seats right is a scheme KEIOC is firmly behind- do you know what impact that would have on future ticket sales. Is the idea that money generated would mean a bigger stadium so that these seats could be effectively written off anyway without damaging the overall average attendance?
Im genuinely asking because I know you have done a lot of research and seem to know more than most into the options available.
My understanding is this:
- The asking price Kenwright and the board want is too high
- There are no buyers because there is no potential return on investment
- The ageing stadium needs to be addressed
It all feels a bit chicken and egg- if one of those things were to change then it could all happen. The stadium development/move if self funded would mean a better prospect to buyers, which would in turn get Kenwright et el the price they want.
What take overs would you deem a success in England of the last 5 years?
I know the equity seats right is a scheme KEIOC is firmly behind- do you know what impact that would have on future ticket sales. Is the idea that money generated would mean a bigger stadium so that these seats could be effectively written off anyway without damaging the overall average attendance?
Im genuinely asking because I know you have done a lot of research and seem to know more than most into the options available.
My understanding is this:
- The asking price Kenwright and the board want is too high
- There are no buyers because there is no potential return on investment
- The ageing stadium needs to be addressed
It all feels a bit chicken and egg- if one of those things were to change then it could all happen. The stadium development/move if self funded would mean a better prospect to buyers, which would in turn get Kenwright et el the price they want.
What take overs would you deem a success in England of the last 5 years?
nigelcoyb
Player Valuation: £25m
The Daily post article is another Kenwright whitewash, like Davek I can't see how people are taken in. The premise of making a quick buck out of Forest may be right but every man and his dog knows we're at a different level to use that to back up Kenwright and his "no-one's buying" line is poor. Sure we'd all love a big hitter but the true agenda of the piece is revealed in this sentence:
"save the emergence of another a bored billionaire in the mould of Roman Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour looking to improve his global profile with a new plaything."
An objective reporter wouldn't use such sneering language, it's the BIG problem, local press drip, drip, drip this stuff and fans accept it.
Instead of spending the majority of the text using Forest's "potential" as an excuse to defend what's happened at Goodison an expose questioning what our terms and price are would provide FACTS to make a true comparison.
As others have said if the present incumbents are daring to ask £150 million there's no contest, if they're asking something like City @ £80 million it's a different ball game.
Pissing in the wind with this though because fans really are not interested, in that respect Davek was being kind with his description.
"save the emergence of another a bored billionaire in the mould of Roman Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour looking to improve his global profile with a new plaything."
An objective reporter wouldn't use such sneering language, it's the BIG problem, local press drip, drip, drip this stuff and fans accept it.
Instead of spending the majority of the text using Forest's "potential" as an excuse to defend what's happened at Goodison an expose questioning what our terms and price are would provide FACTS to make a true comparison.
As others have said if the present incumbents are daring to ask £150 million there's no contest, if they're asking something like City @ £80 million it's a different ball game.
Pissing in the wind with this though because fans really are not interested, in that respect Davek was being kind with his description.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
They'll never redevelop Goodison because it means change in the structure of ownership as they cant or wont get loans to fund it. So the rebuff is a simple: it 'cant physically be done' unless the club wanted to lose lots of revenue in transitional seasons and the cost would be enormous.
The ESR scheme would ineviatbly mean future revenue would be lost on some seating but offset by gains in better commercial facilities. As I understand it.
Yes, that's all true. And points one and two are directly related. Short of a Sheik being found with a love of Everton FC, control of Everton is not going to change hands soon. Its a no-brainer for anyone who looks at the club as an investment that can be moved onto the next level that it cant, given the state the club's in. They (the board) have got the club in this situation because of their past mismanagement that borrowed against everything they couldn't sell, and their present and apparent greed in making major money off their failures. A stadium: who, realistically, are going to get involved with an organisation that has no funds to contribute and have burnt their bridges with the local state given the past two stadium fiascos?
There is no solution that can be put forward short of what I've already suggested: the board sell up for what they paid for their shares or walk away and invite new owners to come in and pick up the reins of a financially exhausted organisation (scenarios that obviously are never going to happen). My position on the takeover is clear - we need to crash and burn on the pitch to generate large-scale opposition to the mismanagement. Unpalatable.
Well, we can point all day to the extremes of takeover success and failure (the City's and Chelseas versus the West Ham's and Portsmouths) and the one's that have been only moderatly successful. But I really dont understand the preoccupation with what happens at other clubs as a measuring rod of what will or can happen at Everton. I dont know where that type of comparison gets us at the end of the day.
The fact of the matter is (and what people should accept and focus their minds on) is that the takeover of Everton in 1999 was a complete and utter failure that's smashed the club to bits as a competitive organsation for years to come. A financial basket case that's limping along and run by men with no plan of action whatsover and a string of massive and embarrassing failures behind them. People shouldn't be worrying themselves about what a takeover will do in the future, they should be more concerned with the continuing damage done by the orchestrators of the 1999 takeover.
steken1
Player Valuation: £70m
Brilliant post.
bourneblue
Player Valuation: £10m
"The fact of the matter is (and what people should accept and focus their minds on) is that the takeover of Everton in 1999 was a complete and utter failure that's smashed the club to bits as a competitive organsation for years to come."
Have you convienently forgotten the relegation battles of the 90's,surviving by the skin of our teeth on the last day ?
Unless you call competing for relegation as being a competitive organisation.
Have you convienently forgotten the relegation battles of the 90's,surviving by the skin of our teeth on the last day ?
Unless you call competing for relegation as being a competitive organisation.
nigelcoyb
Player Valuation: £25m
Pisses me off this continued reference to the Walter years, firstly it was 10 yrs ago and secondly this club doesn't get relegated, it might do loads of other sh1t but we don't get relegated.
It was a simple to address ie recognise we are not big hitters and cut our cloth accordingly, defensive, holding football arrived and pragmatism over glory became the order of the day bringing stability - well done Moyes!
The only thing is it was meant to be a stepping stone not a "new model everton", certainly not a comfy platform for a few self interested shareholders to make money out of a retail park.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
I haven't forgotten we won something - even under Johnson - nor that the level of debt was manageable, nor that the club hadn't securitized its season ticket money for decades, nor that we still owned a number of assets, nor that the stadium was upgraded.
We had potential back then. Now we have a millstone around our necks and no one sensible with cash will touch us with a shitty stick. It's right what some people have been saying; be careful what you wish for with takeovers...you just might end up with another Kenwright.
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