The Defence -- thoughts and views

[Cal]

hes definatley not world class but the previous two seasons he was a very good player indeed.

Yeh, he's a very good player but slightly over-rated by our fans.

Jagielka get some unfair criticism after a mistake. But Lescott has made more mistakes then Jagielka.

 

[TsarDiniyar]

I don't see how it was his fault for the second. Jagielka's a defender, it's was in his area and he failed to deal with it.

Lescott has been dreadful this season.

Jags has made a couple mistakes however he's played as a holding mid for most of the preseason and just getting back up speed.

Baines always looks quality going forward but he's terrible in defence.

Neville's defending has been OK I guess. Passing has been, well to be nice, just a little erratic though.

Yobo's back to making WTF gaffes more frequently and was lucky to get away with Fuller's goal that never was.

Howard - While he's one of the best in the world at stopping shots, teams are exposing his weakness, his lack of control in the penalty box on set plays and such. I'm not going to fault him for today though. I don't think I ever seen throw ins with that much pace on them, many of those throws were undefendable. Its like Stoke gets a free corner every time you lose it out of bounds on your side. The he got a good punch out on the 1st goal and the second was an own goal.

Me thinking the loss of Carsley is a big reason why we're not settled in the back yet. Like I've always said, Carsley was our most valuable player against bottom 10 of the prem and a big reason why we always got 3 points aganist them instead of 1.

I'm a goalkeeper, which makes me analyse their performances critically (even though they are obviously better than me, thats the reason they are there, I watch them and judge them based on what I think should be done).

Howard has always made me nervous, I thought last year that the couple of performances from Wessels were much more assertive than tims. Tim is a very unorthodox keeper. he is very 'jumpy' and you get the impression he never seems relaxed and always on edge. The fact that he is never relaxed leads to him never being 'set' when the ball is hit, resulting in an obscurely fashioned save or a goal.

His obsession with punching really [Poor language removed] me off, because every time e punches he uses two fists, now, its common sense that if you can get two fists on a ball, you can get two hands on it an catch the [Poor language removed]. OK, if you can punch like david james and clear half way line, but if you can brely clear your own 18 yard box, you are putting your team in danger. (now i know this was exposed more than usual today due to the throw-ins, but the fact it has been exposed could lead to others now playing to that weakness when they face us).

1st goal for example, [Poor language removed] [Poor language removed] punch...goal

2nd goal, he for some obscure reason is concentrating on pushing the stoke player while the ball is in flight, either plow through him and jags and collect (or do you stupid 2 fisted punch), or stand your ground and give yourself room and time to react. Instead, his actions leave him looking like he could have beat phelps in the butterfly.

To be perfectly honest, having trained with nash when I was younger, he is much more orthodox in his goalkeeping style and is a million times better than timmy tourettes.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Yeh, he's a very good player but slightly over-rated by our fans.

Jagielka get some unfair criticism after a mistake. But Lescott has made more mistakes then Jagielka.

I don't think so to be honest, his consistency and level of performances over the past two seasons have been excellent.

Players like Cahill and Arteta I'd say are more overrated to be honest, neither are as consistent as Lescott yet they get more credit.

 

[Neiler]

I'm a goalkeeper, which makes me analyse their performances critically (even though they are obviously better than me, thats the reason they are there, I watch them and judge them based on what I think should be done).

Howard has always made me nervous, I thought last year that the couple of performances from Wessels were much more assertive than tims. Tim is a very unorthodox keeper. he is very 'jumpy' and you get the impression he never seems relaxed and always on edge. The fact that he is never relaxed leads to him never being 'set' when the ball is hit, resulting in an obscurely fashioned save or a goal.

His obsession with punching really [Poor language removed] me off, because every time e punches he uses two fists, now, its common sense that if you can get two fists on a ball, you can get two hands on it an catch the [Poor language removed]. OK, if you can punch like david james and clear half way line, but if you can brely clear your own 18 yard box, you are putting your team in danger. (now i know this was exposed more than usual today due to the throw-ins, but the fact it has been exposed could lead to others now playing to that weakness when they face us).

1st goal for example, [Poor language removed] [Poor language removed] punch...goal

2nd goal, he for some obscure reason is concentrating on pushing the stoke player while the ball is in flight, either plow through him and jags and collect (or do you stupid 2 fisted punch), or stand your ground and give yourself room and time to react. Instead, his actions leave him looking like he could have beat phelps in the butterfly.

To be perfectly honest, having trained with nash when I was younger, he is much more orthodox in his goalkeeping style and is a million times better than timmy tourettes.

Its intresting when you watch the repays of the goals today, for the first neville reacts quicker then Tim for the shot. Im not his biggest fan though it has to be said.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I'm a goalkeeper, which makes me analyse their performances critically (even though they are obviously better than me, thats the reason they are there, I watch them and judge them based on what I think should be done).

Howard has always made me nervous, I thought last year that the couple of performances from Wessels were much more assertive than tims. Tim is a very unorthodox keeper. he is very 'jumpy' and you get the impression he never seems relaxed and always on edge. The fact that he is never relaxed leads to him never being 'set' when the ball is hit, resulting in an obscurely fashioned save or a goal.

His obsession with punching really [Poor language removed] me off, because every time e punches he uses two fists, now, its common sense that if you can get two fists on a ball, you can get two hands on it an catch the [Poor language removed]. OK, if you can punch like david james and clear half way line, but if you can brely clear your own 18 yard box, you are putting your team in danger. (now i know this was exposed more than usual today due to the throw-ins, but the fact it has been exposed could lead to others now playing to that weakness when they face us).

1st goal for example, [Poor language removed] [Poor language removed] punch...goal

2nd goal, he for some obscure reason is concentrating on pushing the stoke player while the ball is in flight, either plow through him and jags and collect (or do you stupid 2 fisted punch), or stand your ground and give yourself room and time to react. Instead, his actions leave him looking like he could have beat phelps in the butterfly.

To be perfectly honest, having trained with nash when I was younger, he is much more orthodox in his goalkeeping style and is a million times better than timmy tourettes.

I was enjoying your post until I came past these two quotes, they completely spoiled a perfectly good post.

Nash is a Championship keeper/sub Prem keeper, it's been proven time and time again. Wessels was dodgy in every game bar the Utd game, he was an average keeper.

The majority of keepers in the Prem punch the ball, it [Poor language removed] me off aswell but it's true. They don't command there areas like they did back in the day, I include Petr Cech in this aswell.

And watching from your seat it's quite easy to say "catch the [Poor language removed]", in reality though it's not so easy. If you try and jump over someone and catch a ball with two hands your likely to drop it and fall over. There's so many bodies in the box, big physical lads who are barging and knocking you off balance.

Puching the ball means there's less risk of you dropping it and you don't put yourself under pressure. You get some clearence on it and you retreat back to your line.

The second goal was Jagielka's fault. The ball was played into his area and he should have dealt with it, Howard tried to help him out when he saw Jags struggling. Keepers are supposed to command there areas but so are defenders, both failed in that respect today.

Howard is a perfectly good keeper, his record speaks for itself to be honest. The influence he has on the back four speaks for itself over the past two seasons. Every keeper has there deficiencies, no one is perfect.

 

[Neiler]

I was enjoying your post until I came past these two quotes, they completely spoiled a perfectly good post.

Nash is a Championship keeper/sub Prem keeper, it's been proven time and time again. Wessels was dodgy in every game bar the Utd game, he was an average keeper.

The majority of keepers in the Prem punch the ball, it [Poor language removed] me off aswell but it's true. They don't command there areas like they did back in the day, I include Petr Cech in this aswell.

And watching from your seat it's quite easy to say "catch the [Poor language removed]", in reality though it's not so easy. If you try and jump over someone and catch a ball with two hands your likely to drop it and fall over. There's so many bodies in the box, big physical lads who are barging and knocking you off balance.

Puching the ball means there's less risk of you dropping it and you don't put yourself under pressure. You get some clearence on it and you retreat back to your line.

The second goal was Jagielka's fault. The ball was played into his area and he should have dealt with it, Howard tried to help him out when he saw Jags struggling. Keepers are supposed to command there areas but so are defenders, both failed in that respect today.

Howard is a perfectly good keeper, his record speaks for itself to be honest. The influence he has on the back four speaks for itself over the past two seasons. Every keeper has there deficiencies, no one is perfect.

The first goal mate was the result of a Howard punch i feel Tim should have caught mate.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Howard has looked dodgey this year. I agree he looked uncomfortable with Delaps throws finally late he started to aggressively catch the ball instead of punch it. Jags unlucky on the OG. I still would keep that back four the same Lescott looks better on the left for me. To many goals going in this year I'm hopeful Castillo will help out a lot more in the coming weeks to diffuse attacks.

 

[zero]

I refuse to judge Howard based on a game against Stoke,

Those bloody long throws made Friedel look like a joke and he's one of the most reliable keepers in the league.

 

[Goat]

I refuse to judge Howard based on a game against Stoke,

Those bloody long throws made Friedel look like a joke and he's one of the most reliable keepers in the league.

I agree, he cant be expected to claim balls that are thrown in like they were, he can not be expected to barge 8-9 6Ft players out the way.

The amount of keepers that are going to be made to look silly by Stoke it gonna be madness, fair play to them, it dnt look pretty, but its gonna be so effective. Did any1 notice how scared we were when we had the ball in our defence? Normally some1 would just hoof it out of play, but the fear made them play it and teams will be caught out this season cos they DONT want to concede throw ins.

 

[kenada_blue]

I do hold him responsible for the second goal. What was he actually trying to do? Come off his line and go for another punch/catch or did he feel where he was positioned would've stopped a shot?

He was about a yard or two from his line and would been able to do something about the ball that skimmed from Jags head. But he could do anything because he was too close to the attacker in front.

I dont blame him for the 1st goal. The lad should've been closed down quicker. He was in acres of space and had that time to move back and volley it.

But Howard has kept us in games plenty of times in the past. When he's on form he's one of the best in the prem.

 

[HalewoodBlue]

I don't see how it was his fault for the second. Jagielka's a defender, it's was in his area and he failed to deal with it.

Not only didn't he come clear house which he should have done he also was in a bad position standing right behind jag meaning if there was any touch then he wouldn't stand a chance of reacting. At fault for both goals
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[kenada_blue]

That's how I saw it.

If the stoke attacker flicked it on instead of Jags you'd probably have the same outcome because Howard would've been nowhere near it. The pace of the ball coming in was too quick for him to react to in that position.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Not only didn't he come clear house which he should have done he also was in a bad position standing right behind jag meaning if there was any touch then he wouldn't stand a chance of reacting. At fault for both goals
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First goal was a very difficult catch to take, as are all long throw ins like that in a crowd of players so a punch is probably the best choice. A good punch that is, should of gone away from goal or out for a corner rather than into the penalty area down the middle.

Second goal he was poorly positioned. A low and fast throw like that makes it very difficult to judge the flight of the ball, hence Tim and Jags getting it wrong.

IMO Howard could of done better yes, but their were reason as to why he didnt which made it very hard for him.

Its like a striker hitting the ball over the bar from 2 yards. You say he should of scored but the bobble at the last moment made it very difficult for him and he got his kick wrong.

I think the best way to deal with Stokes throws is to pretty much come for every thing like a man posessed. And thats not Tims style.

 

[jamiem]

Lescott is used to go forth since he's used to play LB, if he continues as a CD I think he'll develop into one of the best CD's in the league.

Someone agrees with me!!!

Nobody can deny that Lescott was brilliant at LB last season and I agree that he was definately the right choice there yesterday against a big side, BUT long term I'm sure he will be 1st choice CB with Yobo

If DM decides that Baines isn't the answer at LB, then he needs to go out and buy one in Jan!

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I agree with everyone. Castillo and Fellaini should shave their heads and then the defenders will settle down