The Crowd

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maccavennie

Player Valuation: £70m
Back to the crowd thing and I've said this time after time after time. We ( I'm 40 so going back since I was 8 years old now) have never been the type to just roll off songs and have pre meditated singing. It just ain't us, I ain't saying it's Kopite behaviour to sing but it's something that sets us apart. I've been to loads of games in 32 years where we've been crap, we've booed, it's been quiet etc etc. I've been to games where we've been crap but crap players have got stuck in, thrown a tackle in or had a shot or made a great save and it gets the fans going. I've been to games where we've been expected to get beat and defended like our lives depended on it and won and the stadium has been rocking. Been to matches where we've played some superb togger ( every now and then lol) and we've had that stadium shaking.

Its not a new thing, it's the same thing and always has been imo - throw a tackle in, show us a bit of magic, stick your head in where it shouldn't be and score a header, make a pass that no one else sees, beat your man and whip in a beast of a cross, get in the faces of the opposition, make a last ditch clearance off the line or a point blank save - you'll get every Evertonian up on their feet and roaring you on if you do any of the above.

Anything below that just isn't good enough

imo
 

Saint Domingo

Player Valuation: £70m
Are we actually capable of getting Goodison like that again though? There´s probably plenty who go the game now who haven´t had atmospheres like United when Ferguson scored the winner and Fiorentina.
Yes because on both occasions it looked like the team were beating top opposition in a crucial must win game. Look how the crowd responded. For all the money thrown at the first team there’s not been a performance anywhere near the quality of the Fiorentina one for years post Moyes (perhaps only the City 4-0 but there was nothing on that game).

This team has to start giving the fans something otherwise attendances will go down. They’ve been lucky that the fans have been loyal through years of absolute dross and quite frankly embarrassing turn outs because in previous decades that would have resulted in half full houses. If we have a few more seasons of this tepid nonsense with an occasional ‘Everton that’ gut punch thrown in then they can kiss large attendances goodbye. Until this club takes competing seriously then it doesn’t deserve a boisterous crowd on tap every home game.
 

maccavennie

Player Valuation: £70m
Yes because on both occasions it looked like the team were beating top opposition in a crucial must win game. Look how the crowd responded. For all the money thrown at the first team there’s not been a performance anywhere near the quality of the Fiorentina one for years post Moyes (perhaps only the City 4-0 but there was nothing on that game).

This team has to start giving the fans something otherwise attendances will go down. They’ve been lucky that the fans have been loyal through years of absolute dross and quite frankly embarrassing turn outs because in previous decades that would have resulted in half full houses. If we have a few more seasons of this tepid nonsense with an occasional ‘Everton that’ gut punch thrown in then they can kiss large attendances goodbye. Until this club takes competing seriously then it doesn’t deserve a boisterous crowd on tap every home game.
Amen brother Domingo
 

dannyboy

Player Valuation: £70m
Yes because on both occasions it looked like the team were beating top opposition in a crucial must win game. Look how the crowd responded. For all the money thrown at the first team there’s not been a performance anywhere near the quality of the Fiorentina one for years post Moyes (perhaps only the City 4-0 but there was nothing on that game).

This team has to start giving the fans something otherwise attendances will go down. They’ve been lucky that the fans have been loyal through years of absolute dross and quite frankly embarrassing turn outs because in previous decades that would have resulted in half full houses. If we have a few more seasons of this tepid nonsense with an occasional ‘Everton that’ gut punch thrown in then they can kiss large attendances goodbye. Until this club takes competing seriously then it doesn’t deserve a boisterous crowd on tap every home game.
Bizarre thing is how good our attendances have been for a few years now whilst quite possibly the most boring/uninspiring football has been played. As you mention, even the more dramatic matches lack an edge because there´s nothing riding on them.

I do wonder about the people who have made up the numbers for us to go from 35k to 39k every week. I´d imagine it´s a lot of kids, and I´d even imagine it´s a lot of dads who never really went to the game when they were young but with the marketing of the Premier League have jumped on the bandwagon. If that´s the case, it doesn´t help the atmosphere but overall you´re probably right in saying that it´s mainly down to where we are as a club right now.

We beat the dross and get up to 50 points and lose comfortably against the top sides. If there has been a more boring period in the history of the club then I´d be surprised.
 

Saint Domingo

Player Valuation: £70m
Bizarre thing is how good our attendances have been for a few years now whilst quite possibly the most boring/uninspiring football has been played. As you mention, even the more dramatic matches lack an edge because there´s nothing riding on them.

I do wonder about the people who have made up the numbers for us to go from 35k to 39k every week. I´d imagine it´s a lot of kids, and I´d even imagine it´s a lot of dads who never really went to the game when they were young but with the marketing of the Premier League have jumped on the bandwagon. If that´s the case, it doesn´t help the atmosphere but overall you´re probably right in saying that it´s mainly down to where we are as a club right now.

We beat the dross and get up to 50 points and lose comfortably against the top sides. If there has been a more boring period in the history of the club then I´d be surprised.
Whilst the club has had a lot of praise for its ticketing initiatives etc. (And rightly so), the cynical side of me sometimes thinks that a lot of it was done as a distraction and a way of moving away from being competitive. All of the stuff going on around the actual match about family friendly this, charity appeal that, funny Fellaini wigs on sale etc. It’s all contributed to this Uber friendly, super polite, match day feeling where it’s almost ok if Everton aren’t winning because the football is almost just the afterthought. Hey we have the most kids and families and school groups at the match than anyone else because they’re the groups who don’t really care about the result of the game as much as others.

If you want a stark contrast (and obviously it’s one far too beyond the pale to ever condone) then that lot over the park bricked an opposition coach because they though it would give them an edge in the game and their club practically endorsed it.

Our club has zero interest in competing so they now have a crowd that reflects this.
 

EFC78

Player Valuation: £25m
Bizarre thing is how good our attendances have been for a few years now whilst quite possibly the most boring/uninspiring football has been played. As you mention, even the more dramatic matches lack an edge because there´s nothing riding on them.

I do wonder about the people who have made up the numbers for us to go from 35k to 39k every week. I´d imagine it´s a lot of kids, and I´d even imagine it´s a lot of dads who never really went to the game when they were young but with the marketing of the Premier League have jumped on the bandwagon. If that´s the case, it doesn´t help the atmosphere but overall you´re probably right in saying that it´s mainly down to where we are as a club right now.

We beat the dross and get up to 50 points and lose comfortably against the top sides. If there has been a more boring period in the history of the club then I´d be surprised.
It is a very boring time to support us. Was our last win against one of the top 6 sides that City 4-0?

I wonder what 1971 to 1984 was like. We finished in the top 4 in 75, 78 and 79 but I can't imagine that had the same "achievement" labelled on it as it is today with it gaining CL qualification. Must have been hard for that period while the RS were winning the League and European Cups. But other than that, can't see anything as dull as this.

Would rather this than the worry we had in the 90's though.
 

dannyboy

Player Valuation: £70m
Whilst the club has had a lot of praise for its ticketing initiatives etc. (And rightly so), the cynical side of me sometimes thinks that a lot of it was done as a distraction and a way of moving away from being competitive. All of the stuff going on around the actual match about family friendly this, charity appeal that, funny Fellaini wigs on sale etc. It’s all contributed to this Uber friendly, super polite, match day feeling where it’s almost ok if Everton aren’t winning because the football is almost just the afterthought. Hey we have the most kids and families and school groups at the match than anyone else because they’re the groups who don’t really care about the result of the game as much as others.

If you want a stark contrast (and obviously it’s one far too beyond the pale to ever condone) then that lot over the park bricked an opposition coach because they though it would give them an edge in the game and their club practically endorsed it.

Our club has zero interest in competing so they now have a crowd that reflects this.
An interesting take and one I´m inclined to agree with. Even under Moyes I remember the absolute revolt when he brought Hibbert on and Spurs scored a last minute winner. If there had still been cushions on the seats they´d have been on the pitch.Now a days it´s more a shrug of the shoulders because it´s to be expected.
 

JL94

Player Valuation: £950k
Genuinely feel like we're two different sets of fans home and away. Away support is absolutely insane! Home, I feel like some matches I can get a quick book in, it's that quiet.

Don't know how to change it, wish we would though because it's annoying as hell to see
 

dannyboy

Player Valuation: £70m
It is a very boring time to support us. Was our last win against one of the top 6 sides that City 4-0?

I wonder what 1971 to 1984 was like. We finished in the top 4 in 75, 78 and 79 but I can't imagine that had the same "achievement" labelled on it as it is today with it gaining CL qualification. Must have been hard for that period while the RS were winning the League and European Cups. But other than that, can't see anything as dull as this.

Would rather this than the worry we had in the 90's though.
I´d never wish relegation on us but at least you´ve got the drama when you´re in a relegation battle. This is another year where it´s only just been Christmas and I´ll want the season to end as soon as we´re dumped out of the cup.
 

dannyboy

Player Valuation: £70m
Genuinely feel like we're two different sets of fans home and away. Away support is absolutely insane! Home, I feel like some matches I can get a quick book in, it's that quiet.

Don't know how to change it, wish we would though because it's annoying as hell to see
Is the away support that good? Honestly, it doesn´t sound that fantastic in terms of noise. Numbers have always been superb but it´s been that way since well before I was born.
 

Neiziro

Player Valuation: £25m
The atmosphere and crowd at Goodison has been amongst the worst in the league for some time now. During the 80s, 90s, even during the Moyes days Goodison was always known as a bear pit, we were the team to avoid in the cup draw, the great Sir Alex Ferguson said it was a nightmare coming to Goodison. That crowd in the 80s won us the Bayern Munich game - where we were 1-0 down at half time might I add, the players weren't booed off and the crowd wasn't toxic towards our own players once we went behind - and in the 90s as well with the famous final game against Wimbledon. It just doesn't happen anymore, and it frustrates me so much to see the soul slowly being sucked out of our great club, if it hasn't already.

I am sick to the back teeth of matchgoers having this mentality of "sit back and wait to be entertained", and seeing shouts of "We'll wait until they start performing on the pitch before we sing". That's not being a supporter, it's being a CUSTOMER, simply another sheep feeding Farhad Moshiri's coffers. As long as people continue to adopt this "theatre mentality" then nothing will change. Having a roaring atmosphere from the off gives those players the motivation to go an extra mile and really push themselves for the cause, we'll get breaks of the ball we otherwise wouldn't have gotten, we might get some luck from the referee, opposition players will flap it and play worse. That never happens at Goodison anymore - if it's silent then that extra bit of hidden motivation isn't there, opposition players aren't intimidated, and the "home advantage" we should have isn't there. It's like we play every game away, with the home fans sucking the confidence and motivation out of our own players if they don't perform. This wholly flawed way of thinking needs badly binning off.

For example, look at Rangers in the recent Old Firm derby victory. Ibrox was absolutely bouncing and their players responded by pouring in more passion and guts than they've showed all season, while Celtic players completely flapped it. I can name millions of other games that have been won solely because of the fans as well. Goodison doesn't even get up for big games anymore, it's always "EVERTON EVERTON EVERTON" being sung every so often, or "EEEEVERTON, EEEEVERTON" meekly being blared once we win a corner. A large number of the matchgoing crowd at Goodison will say our players "aren't arsed", when the club's own fans aren't even "arsed" themselves. Why should those players go that extra mile on the pitch for so-called "fans" who turn their back on them when they're in need of a lift? If we actually tried to generate a 'bear pit' atmosphere and performances were the same then fair enough, but we haven't done that whatsoever for ages now. We put in our best performance at Anfield in years this season despite the result, yet our end could hardly be heard all game. It's all a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

If you *only* want entertainment and high quality football then shouldn't you be watching the likes of Barcelona, Man City, dare I say it the RS? You go the game to get behind your team - win lose or draw - and if you're not going to do that then why even go? Why even follow the team if you're not going to get behind them, whether it's keeping them flying when they're doing well already or picking them up when they need a lift? I do think about if the matchgoing crowd ever wonder how Sunderland and other lower league fans get by. What a bunch of weirdos, singing and backing their team when they've been relegated twice in a row! How could they possibly be entertained by League One football, outside the so-called "best league in der werld"?!

Another point, where I may delve slightly off-course. I feel like ever since Moshiri has come in, our fans now feel a greater sense of entitlement and this notion has popped up that we have a God-given right to turn teams over simply because we have spent alot of money, when that's not how it works whatsoever, no team has any divine right to turn anyone over no matter how much money they have. I see shouts such as "he's on X a week, he cost X million so I expect to see this", again it doesn't work like that. Value in football is almost always vastly overinflated, it's the worst market in the world with many factors affecting a player's value - a transfer fee or a wage is never indicative of a player's ability. Sandro Ramirez is on more than most of the Tottenham squad for goodness' sake. That's the fault of the balloons who sanctioned his purchase. It's about spending your money wisely like we did in the Moyes days, not lazily splashing stupid amounts of cash on players not worth that amount (Mo Salah less than Sigurdsson anyone?). So far Moshiri has not done anything remotely similar to spending wisely at all, sanctioning the purchase of hundreds of millions of pounds' worth of FOTM managers and mid-table level players. The expectations of the crowd are currently outstripping the actual level of the team as a result of this way of thinking that more money = better, and that combined with said players who are largely already average on paper receiving only abuse from the crowd for not performing to the unrealistic expectations, means we are going to continue to get worse. Negativity breeds negativity and apathy breeds apathy.

Back to the main point, Goodison just doesn't feel magical anymore. I always used to go the match and it felt special, it felt like my second home, nowadays that feeling is completely gone. The ground is full of negativity and vitriol, sometimes even when we're winning. Away fans outsing us week in week out, it's become both embarrassing and sad at the same time. "Sing when you're winning" doesn't even apply to us because we don't even sing when we are winning, it's that poor.

The problem with our crowd is that we have forgotten what Everton is. We have lost our identity, and we're not getting it back unless we all start to work together as supporters in order to remember who we are again.

I apologize for this post being so long. It just frustrates me and saddens me at the same time to see the atmosphere around the club in such a sorry state, and people who are trying to get everyone to work together just being ignored or shot down. I do hope something happens in the future but for now I can't see any light at the end of this frustrating tunnel.
 

degsy

Player Valuation: £70m
Yet again, it was absolutely dead at Goodison.

Why is it always so rubbish? Why do we need some injustice to get us going?
Fair point Re. Injustice, but football is a business...part of the entertainment business, but still a business. You don't give the customer what it wants, a proper product, yet you want praise for doing badly.
Just be happy they took the cushions away and the only negative feed back is sites like this...and it is.
Bring back the cushions
 

dannyboy

Player Valuation: £70m
The atmosphere and crowd at Goodison has been amongst the worst in the league for some time now. During the 80s, 90s, even during the Moyes days Goodison was always known as a bear pit, we were the team to avoid in the cup draw, the great Sir Alex Ferguson said it was a nightmare coming to Goodison. That crowd in the 80s won us the Bayern Munich game - where we were 1-0 down at half time might I add, the players weren't booed off and the crowd wasn't toxic towards our own players once we went behind - and in the 90s as well with the famous final game against Wimbledon. It just doesn't happen anymore, and it frustrates me so much to see the soul slowly being sucked out of our great club, if it hasn't already.

I am sick to the back teeth of matchgoers having this mentality of "sit back and wait to be entertained", and seeing shouts of "We'll wait until they start performing on the pitch before we sing". That's not being a supporter, it's being a CUSTOMER, simply another sheep feeding Farhad Moshiri's coffers. As long as people continue to adopt this "theatre mentality" then nothing will change. Having a roaring atmosphere from the off gives those players the motivation to go an extra mile and really push themselves for the cause, we'll get breaks of the ball we otherwise wouldn't have gotten, we might get some luck from the referee, opposition players will flap it and play worse. That never happens at Goodison anymore - if it's silent then that extra bit of hidden motivation isn't there, opposition players aren't intimidated, and the "home advantage" we should have isn't there. It's like we play every game away, with the home fans sucking the confidence and motivation out of our own players if they don't perform. This wholly flawed way of thinking needs badly binning off.

For example, look at Rangers in the recent Old Firm derby victory. Ibrox was absolutely bouncing and their players responded by pouring in more passion and guts than they've showed all season, while Celtic players completely flapped it. I can name millions of other games that have been won solely because of the fans as well. Goodison doesn't even get up for big games anymore, it's always "EVERTON EVERTON EVERTON" being sung every so often, or "EEEEVERTON, EEEEVERTON" meekly being blared once we win a corner. A large number of the matchgoing crowd at Goodison will say our players "aren't arsed", when the club's own fans aren't even "arsed" themselves. Why should those players go that extra mile on the pitch for so-called "fans" who turn their back on them when they're in need of a lift? If we actually tried to generate a 'bear pit' atmosphere and performances were the same then fair enough, but we haven't done that whatsoever for ages now. We put in our best performance at Anfield in years this season despite the result, yet our end could hardly be heard all game. It's all a bit hypocritical if you ask me.

If you *only* want entertainment and high quality football then shouldn't you be watching the likes of Barcelona, Man City, dare I say it the RS? You go the game to get behind your team - win lose or draw - and if you're not going to do that then why even go? Why even follow the team if you're not going to get behind them, whether it's keeping them flying when they're doing well already or picking them up when they need a lift? I do think about if the matchgoing crowd ever wonder how Sunderland and other lower league fans get by. What a bunch of weirdos, singing and backing their team when they've been relegated twice in a row! How could they possibly be entertained by League One football, outside the so-called "best league in der werld"?!

Another point, where I may delve slightly off-course. I feel like ever since Moshiri has come in, our fans now feel a greater sense of entitlement and this notion has popped up that we have a God-given right to turn teams over simply because we have spent alot of money, when that's not how it works whatsoever, no team has any divine right to turn anyone over no matter how much money they have. I see shouts such as "he's on X a week, he cost X million so I expect to see this", again it doesn't work like that. Value in football is almost always vastly overinflated, it's the worst market in the world with many factors affecting a player's value - a transfer fee or a wage is never indicative of a player's ability. Sandro Ramirez is on more than most of the Tottenham squad for goodness' sake. That's the fault of the balloons who sanctioned his purchase. It's about spending your money wisely like we did in the Moyes days, not lazily splashing stupid amounts of cash on players not worth that amount (Mo Salah less than Sigurdsson anyone?). So far Moshiri has not done anything remotely similar to spending wisely at all, sanctioning the purchase of hundreds of millions of pounds' worth of FOTM managers and mid-table level players. The expectations of the crowd are currently outstripping the actual level of the team as a result of this way of thinking that more money = better, and that combined with said players who are largely already average on paper receiving only abuse from the crowd for not performing to the unrealistic expectations, means we are going to continue to get worse. Negativity breeds negativity and apathy breeds apathy.

Back to the main point, Goodison just doesn't feel magical anymore. I always used to go the match and it felt special, it felt like my second home, nowadays that feeling is completely gone. The ground is full of negativity and vitriol, sometimes even when we're winning. Away fans outsing us week in week out, it's become both embarrassing and sad at the same time. "Sing when you're winning" doesn't even apply to us because we don't even sing when we are winning, it's that poor.

The problem with our crowd is that we have forgotten what Everton is. We have lost our identity, and we're not getting it back unless we all start to work together as supporters in order to remember who we are again.

I apologize for this post being so long. It just frustrates me and saddens me at the same time to see the atmosphere around the club in such a sorry state, and people who are trying to get everyone to work together just being ignored or shot down. I do hope something happens in the future but for now I can't see any light at the end of this frustrating tunnel.
A great post that. I remember starting to go the game by myself in 2002 and the buzz it gave me. I don´t think as a 12 year old it´d be anywhere near the same now. The point about the crowd forgetting what Everton stands for is an interesting one. I´ve only just mentioned it but I do think there have been an influx of new match going fans who haven´t really grown up in the culture of it all. I´d be surprised if many of them even knew the words to songs like ´Royal Blue Mersey´.

Under Moyes it felt like we still had our pride as a club. We did our best to compete given the obvious gulf in finances and for the most part we actually did. These days with the money we´ve spent it´s all gone a bit boring. Our identity is a club that overspends on mediocre footballers that achieve mediocre results.
 

witchdoc187

Player Valuation: £35m
Genuinely feel like we're two different sets of fans home and away. Away support is absolutely insane! Home, I feel like some matches I can get a quick book in, it's that quiet.

Don't know how to change it, wish we would though because it's annoying as hell to see
Before I left the country I only went to aways for years because the atmosphere was decent. Goodison is quiet because pretty much all our matches are completely pointless. Nothing to play for, doesn't matter if we win or lose
 

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