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[orchard]

Yea, but Carillion is just one part of something that otherwise works flawlessly...

Pollock is a moron. Terrible person that’s done as much for the medical profession as myself. In fact, she’s probably created more work for it over her scaremongering about rugby in schools.

Yea, but what about any of the points she raises as opposed to her contribution to your trauma?

 

[zzr45]

Yea, but Carillion is just one part of something that otherwise works flawlessly...


Yea, but what about any of the points she raises as opposed to her contribution to your trauma?

I think it’s very rich for someone who’s done pretty much the same thing as PFI’s to complain about them. Had all her education paid for by the taxpayer and has a cushy job that lets her vomit out books and opinion pieces without having ever contributed to the NHS in the capacity in which she was trained.

 

[abelard]

I think it’s very rich for someone who’s done pretty much the same thing as PFI’s to complain about them. Had all her education paid for by the taxpayer and has a cushy job that lets her vomit out books and opinion pieces without having ever contributed to the NHS in the capacity in which she was trained.

lol

wrong side of the bed this morning mate? or maybe switch to decaf.

the question was: "but what about any of the points she raises as opposed to her contribution to your trauma?"

the article is not a restatement of my own opinion. i was sort of hoping somebody who knew what they were talking about might weigh in. I'll keep waiting...

 

[orchard]

“Our challenge is on the grounds that without an Act of Parliament these plans are unlawful, that there should be proper public consultation and that the principles which say decisions about our NHS should be clear and transparent have been breached.”

Start with this maybe?

 

[zzr45]

lol

wrong side of the bed this morning mate?

the question was: "but what about any of the points she raises as opposed to her contribution to your trauma?"

the article is not a restatement of my own opinion. i was sort of hoping somebody who knew what they were talking about might weigh in. I'll keep waiting...

Ah but you see it was about what she said. It’s the hypocrisy of someone that’s done nothing but take from a system complaining that others have the gall to do it. The fact she doesn’t even have the self awareness to register that fact speaks quite lowly.

She’s an absolute grandstander when all said and done. A lot of what she misses out about these PFI contracts is that they work both ways and the lifetime ‘debt’ includes actually running and maintaining. The government have more caveats to clawback/withhold money than could ever be imagined. But, nope you’re right of course, Carillion and the like are moustached villains who have tied us all to the train tracks. Help us dear Jeremy!

 

[orchard]

From 2010:

The private finance initiative: the gift that goes on taking


Perfidious financial idiocy was how the BMJ’s editor described the private finance initiative (PFI) in 1999.1 Under the policy, NHS hospitals and land are sold off and new hospitals built using private loans instead of public loans or grants. We argued at the time that this would result in bed closures because hospitals had not been funded to pay the full costs of the loans, which are paid back over the 30-60 year contract period.2 3 And that’s what happened: English NHS hospital capacity fell by 73 882 beds (almost a third) between 1992-3 and 2009-10, and occupancy rates rose to unsafe levels of more than 85% during the period when the PFI system of loan financing was introduced.4 5 In 2000, as controversy grew over PFI related bed reductions, the government’s National Bed Inquiry found that further acute sector closures were unlikely to be safely attainable without more intermediate and community service beds, and it recommended reversal of bed closures.6 The wasteful £4bn (€4.8bn; $6.3bn) independent sector treatment centre programme was introduced as a stop gap,7 and hospital reconfiguration continued. Last week the Public Accounts Committee revealed that PFI is even less affordable.8 Banks lending to PFI projects have increased their interest rates by 20-30% since the financial crisis. But, as Audit Scotland has shown, private finance interest rates were already 2.5-4% above public borrowing rates before the government bail out.9 Higher charges for interest rates mean higher annual repayments by the NHS, as much as £200m a year for every 0.01% to 0.03% increase in lending rate.10 The Public Accounts Committee calculates that the increased bank charges “added £1 billion to the contract price, payable over 30 years, for the 35 projects financed in 2009.”8 But the problem of higher interest rate charges is not conf ined to new PFI deals. The PFI’s annual charges rise each year because annual payments are linked to the retail price index. This policy requires large injections of taxpayers’ money to support it. The funding freeze and ring fenced PFI debt payments that are index linked provide the ingredients for a perfect economic storm. The scale of the problem for the UK is formidable. [...]

http://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c7175

 

[abelard]

Ah but you see it was about what she said. It’s the hypocrisy of someone that’s done nothing but take from a system complaining that others have the gall to do it. The fact she doesn’t even have the self awareness to register that fact speaks quite lowly.

She’s an absolute grandstander when all said and done. A lot of what she misses out about these PFI contracts is that they work both ways and the lifetime ‘debt’ includes actually running and maintaining. The government have more caveats to clawback/withhold money than could ever be imagined. But, nope you’re right of course, Carillion and the like are moustached villains who have tied us all to the train tracks. Help us dear Jeremy!

You know that literally everyone who went to university in this country, for almost 40 years, had their tuition paid by the taxpayer, right?

So I presume you apply the same standard (not being allowed to comment on anything if your tuition was free) to everyone else who earned their degree between 1962 and 1998?

Do you work for the NHS? If not, and you've ever used it before, aren't you also just "doing nothing but taking from a system complaining that others have to gall to do it?" (whatever that means)

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not talking from any position of knowledge here so hopefully someone that is can educate us all, but when our stadium thing was announced, it was revealed that local authorities have access to money for capital projects at below market rates. I've no idea if that's limited to local councils or other parts of government can partake, but it begs the question why you'd go to a PFI if this pot of money is available already? It also begs the question if this pot of money is available why Corbyn has felt the need to push for a pot for capital investment.

Putting 2 and 2 together I'm probably making 5, but it does suggest that this pot is not available throughout government, but maybe someone in the know can tell me.

 

[orchard]

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[roydo]

I'm not talking from any position of knowledge here so hopefully someone that is can educate us all, but when our stadium thing was announced, it was revealed that local authorities have access to money for capital projects at below market rates. I've no idea if that's limited to local councils or other parts of government can partake, but it begs the question why you'd go to a PFI if this pot of money is available already? It also begs the question if this pot of money is available why Corbyn has felt the need to push for a pot for capital investment.

Putting 2 and 2 together I'm probably making 5, but it does suggest that this pot is not available throughout government, but maybe someone in the know can tell me.

PFI didnt, or rather dont, sit on official Treasury/Govt "accounts". iirc. In other words they dont add to deficits and that.

You can see why Brown liked them so much, if I am remembering it properly.

 

[orchard]

Major's government, but New Labour certainly didn't shy away from them.

PFI didnt, or rather dont, sit on official Treasury/Govt "accounts". iirc. In other words they dont add to deficits and that.


You can see why Brown liked them so much, if I am remembering it properly.

 

[roydo]

Major's government, but New Labour certainly didn't shy away from them.

Yeah, I know. Major bought them in, but like you say, Brown quite liked them.

 

[Socrates]

Pollock is a moron. Terrible person that’s done as much for the medical profession as myself. In fact, she’s probably created more work for it over her scaremongering about rugby in schools.

Maybe she is but it doesn't make what she said untrue.

 

[Socrates]

Yeah, I know. Major bought them in, but like you say, Brown quite liked them.

Not until after he started attending the Bilderburg meetings.

How much are him and Blair worth now?

And did anyone know that John Major is on the board of Haliburton amongst others?

It appears that these contracts are very beneficial for politicians even if they adversely affect the public.

Crony capitalism at it's finest.

 

[Clint Planet]

Crony capitalism at it's finest.

Bullseye.