The case for Silva

[Lelouch]

The case is that beautiful period before the derby where we were pressing teams passing nicely creating chance after chance having shots was beautiful to watch, We went to Anfield and played them off the park imo and was seriously unlucky not to come away with a win same with the game at United but how does all this just disappear? How has he not got the team back to this after the derby? He's more stubborn that Martinez and his plan B is chucking a striker on when we go a goal down and ignores the shape of the midfield/defence.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You can't really call the derby an 'odd milestone' when it's pretty evident our form dipped massively after that, regardless of who we'd played.

You can only beat what's in front of you, etc, and Dave's absolutely right in saying that we were playing well in that run up to the derby.

He could definitely have done worse. Thank God he hasn't.

We are also very fortunate that the rest of the teams around us are complete tosh.

Would have no real complaints if he was sacked but realistically I just think we'd be in the same boat. We need to get to the summer and if Silva does go, then the replacement needs to be correct. I'm sick of it now. This squad is a bloated mess and would be for most managers.

I can. It's in response to;

• We were perfroming above expectations before the derby (after which point we performed at below expectations), so we know this feller can get a tune out of a team

My point is Everton weren't performing above expectations before the derby. We had a decent home record against the leagues bottom clubs. We beat the likes of Fulham, Brighton and Cardiff at home. I stress this point by highlighting the fixture/results list.

I made the opposite case for Koeman when fans wanted Koeman sacked a month into the season here;

Early Days - GrandOldTeam

There is some discouraged Evertonians right now. Agree with this fella, Evertonians? pic.twitter.com/01WQ1nZT3N — Tony Scott (@Tony_Scott11) September 9, 2017 Some very discouraged Evertonians – with even some calling to see the back of Ronald Koeman… Today’s Everton fancam is in here. Here’s a...

www.grandoldteam.com

OPENING FIXTURES.
“Every team plays the same teams the same amount of times” “You have to play every one twice…”

Still, Everton’s start to the Premier League is eye-watering…

Stoke (H)
Man City (A)
Chelsea (A)
Spurs (H)

With Man Utd (A) up next – results wise, could we have realistically expected much more? Performance wise is another question…

 

[Goat]

It would cost a fortune to sack him.

It wont, he has 2 years left in May, hes on around 3m a year, maybe 5m, depending on source, 10m isnt massive money.

 

[HKIV]

There is simply no case.

The only reason he isn't already in Greece trying to get work is because Moshiri is embarrassed by his pursuit of a fraud.

But everyone has fallen for nonsens like this in a lifetime. You just have to get rid asap and move on.

He has the cash - do it.

There will be a manager out there who can use his cash and build a half decent team that will get in the top 6 now and again and heaven forbid will pick his trongest team and win us a trophy.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Wasting your time with this one pal. Not even worth mentioning he did ok in his first season.

Had had a bad 4 months, bought badly and was deemed garbage by most on here.

Silva is getting far more leeway despite looking equally as bad as Koeman did in his second season.

Koeman-Brands certainly makes more sense than Silva-Brands.

 

[alvinh]

It wont, he has 2 years left in May, hes on around 3m a year, maybe 5m, depending on source, 10m isnt massive money.

The first, second and third choices for the next manager turn the job down saying 'I'm doing well at my current club and would need time in order to turn that team around. You've not given the last guy even a full season, so why would I think you'd give me even that?'

The fourth choice manager says he'll take the job on but looks at the squad and says 'Him, him, him and him, won't work, I need him, him, him and him and if possible him and him too. If we're lucky getting rid of some of the deadwood it shouldn't cost more than a hundred million, maybe hundred fifty million tops.'

The fifth choice manager says the same only he thinks it will cost 200m. '

Finally the 6th choice, who doesn't really fit the bill and has some big question marks attached to him accepts the job and the reduced budgets for the next few years whilst the stadium is built and the costs of sacking 4 managers in almost as many years are paid for out of the player acquisition budgets...

 

[davek]

My point is Everton weren't performing above expectations before the derby. We had a decent home record against the leagues bottom clubs. We beat the likes of Fulham, Brighton and Cardiff at home. I stress this point by highlighting the fixture/results list.

I made the opposite case for Koeman when fans wanted Koeman sacked a month into the season here;

Early Days - GrandOldTeam

There is some discouraged Evertonians right now. Agree with this fella, Evertonians? pic.twitter.com/01WQ1nZT3N — Tony Scott (@Tony_Scott11) September 9, 2017 Some very discouraged Evertonians – with even some calling to see the back of Ronald Koeman… Today’s Everton fancam is in here. Here’s a...

www.grandoldteam.com

But in your defence there of Koeman, based on teams we'd played, Everton had only played what Silva had to contend with up to the derby - three 'big clubs' (and Silva had them all away). Also, you reasoned that there were 7 new players brought in under Koeman and it'd take time to gel; but Silva has had 5 new players to integrate - not that different.

I must confess, I didn't expect you in particular to be calling for (or at least expecting) an early dismissal of Silva, given your calming posts about both Koeman and Martinez in the past...both of those interventions on behalf of managers who were well into their second seasons here. I didn't see this stance on Silva coming after 7 months of the first season.

 

[Leeboy1974]

Other things to add:

• He's been here just 7 months. It's way too short a period to judge him on
• We were perfroming above expectations before the derby (after which point we performed at below expectations), so we know this feller can get a tune out of a team
• The preseason that we needed to work on effective defensive positioning for set pieces was simply not there due to injuries to both CBs brought in last summer...a situation which stretched well into the season
• A goalkeeper having a calamitous season

How where we performing about expectation before the derby???? We beat Southampton Brighton palace and Fulham at home and we beat Leicester away how is that over performing hahahahaha

 

[Parker]

How where we performing about expectation before the derby???? We beat Southampton Brighton palace and Fulham at home and we beat Leicester away how is that over performing hahahahaha

Performances sometimes don't match results. I agree with @davek we were playing well in that period and for the first time in a long time went to the big sides and arguably could/should have gotten more, especially if we had a striker or even just a competent referee.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

But in your defence there of Koeman, based on teams we'd played, Everton had only played what Silva had to contend with up to the derby - three 'big clubs' (and Silva had them all away). Also, you reasoned that there were 7 new players brought in under Koeman and it'd take time to gel; but Silva has had 5 new players to integrate - not that different.

I must confess, I didn't expect you in particular to be calling for (or at least expecting) an early dismissal of Silva, given your calming posts about both Koeman and Martinez in the past...both of those interventions on behalf of managers who were well into their second seasons here. I didn't see this stance on Silva coming after 7 months of the first season.

Although I didn't want Martinez or Koeman, Silva is different to both.

He has built no goodwill, has no credentials/profile, is a bore and the only trends you can take from his managerial career to date are negative around his inability to setup a defence to deal with basic set pieces, predictable playing style and complete collapse of form/lack of resillience.

The only argument for keeping him is around continuity and that is because of Koeman (better record) and Allardyce (better record). Koeman and the interim appointment of Allardyce shouldn't hamstring the club.

He was a gamble. I admired the gamble because it showed Moshiri had some longer term thinking for once rather than flavour of the month and wasn't discouraged by his collapse at Watford. But the gamble hasn't paid off and most significantly, shows no signs of ever looking remotely like it'll pay off.

There's no bigger picture here, he's just not good enough and out of his depth.

 

[davek]

This squad is not playing above expectation by any means before December. You are just popping Chinese propaganda everyday with the same excuses repeated a dozen times per day in this forum without placing a single fault on Silva. He is absolutely not responsible for anything in your eyes.

We are playing well back then but to say we over perform means everything now is consider acceptable. With such mentality, it’s no surprise you can accept our current form as a pinch of salt.

I'm not accepting the current form; it's outrageously bad. However, you cant simply take the last two or so months in isolation. If you did that I;d have every right to say I want you to look at only October andNovemenbr from earlier in the season and judge Silva on that snaphot. You have to take the whole season and evaluate that....good, bad and indifferent.

You can't really call the derby an 'odd milestone' when it's pretty evident our form dipped massively after that, regardless of who we'd played.
You can only beat what's in front of you, etc, and Dave's absolutely right in saying that we were playing well in that run up to the derby.
He could definitely have done worse. Thank God he hasn't.
We are also very fortunate that the rest of the teams around us are complete tosh.
Would have no real complaints if he was sacked but realistically I just think we'd be in the same boat. We need to get to the summer and if Silva does go, then the replacement needs to be correct. I'm sick of it now. This squad is a bloated mess and would be for most managers.

Which is part of my argument on Silva; is he the right man, who knows? But sure as eggs is eggs any new manager would have a bang average squad to sift through and repalce VERY slowly given the sell to buy dictum which has recently come out of the club. IMO you stick with Silva and get him one or two players in key positions and take a new season on and see what it looks like.

We had some great performances against good sides where we were unlucky not to get more out of the games, mainly due to the poor finishing. Our terrible run of form smacks of confidence loss and the squads mental fragility more than anything else to me, which is a deep rooted problem from previous years. It's incredible how the derby loss ie Pickfords moronic gaff has shaken us to the core. Until then and probably now we put in the best performance of any team at Klanfield.

This is the heart of it for me: Everton as an organisation thrive when the going is good; but we sink when there's an unexpected or significant reversal. To blame Silva for that is not right. Has he added a new twist to this by presiding over a low in losses in a short period? Yes. But there is a huge structural and psychological job involved turning this club around.

The utter chaos Koeman left us in cant be stressed enough.

 

[COYBL25]

I'm not accepting the current form; it's outrageously bad. However, you cant simply take the last two or so months in isolation. If you did that I;d have every right to say I want you to look at only October andNovemenbr from earlier in the season and judge Silva on that snaphot. You have to take the whole season and evaluate that....good, bad and indifferent.



Which is part of my argument on Silva; is he the right man, who knows? But sure as eggs is eggs any new manager woiuld have a bang average squad to sift through and repalce VERY slowly given the sell to buy dictum which has recently come out of the club. IMO you stick with Silva nd get him one or two players in key positions and take a new season on and see what it looks like.

This is the heart of it for me: Everton as an organisation thrive when the going is good; we shrink when there's an unexpected or significant reversal. To balame Silva for that is not right. Has he added a new twist to this by presiding over a low in losses in a short period? Yes. But this is a huge structural and psycholigical task turning this club around.

The utter chaos Koeman left us in cant be stressed enough.

The " Koeman " bit is the most important bit out of the lot.

It really is.

 

[jtl60]

Marco Silva says he is tired of being told he must buy a striker for Everton

Marco Silva says he is tired of being told he must buy a striker for Everton

Marco Silva is relaxed about Everton’s goalscoring capability as the transfer window approaches, though he is fed up with being told the club need a striker to replace Romelu Lukaku

www.theguardian.com

He's tired of being told it because he knows it, different to not having the option of being able to do anything about it.

 

[davek]

The " Koeman " bit is the most important bit out of the lot.

It really is.

That man took this club to the abyss. His attitude to spending cash was a disgrace - only matched by the lack of due dilligence he gave to most of them.

It's Silva's job to get on and deal with that catastrophe. If he cant do it then fair enough. He's had a go and we move to a manager feels is someone who can sift through the carnage left by his countryman. Howvever, we ar months (not seasons) into his tenure; we're in midtable and in no danger of relegation. I just dont get any stampede to get rid. Not under the circumstances as described.

 

[malmic]

We are sinking fast with Silva, keeping him because we already sacked many managers does not make any sense. He is by far the worst of the lot